Driving Green: How Modo is Steering Sustainability

Leena Manro (: 00:00

Welcome to Up To So Good, the podcast that unlocks the secrets of creating a purpose-driven business so we can all make this world a better place. Come join the conversation.

(: 00:12

Hello and welcome to Up To So Good, the podcast that explores the purpose of business. I'm your host, Leena Manro, and today's guest is Jane Hope. She's the director of marketing and communications at Modo. Modo is a car-sharing cooperative based and located here in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.

(: 00:29

This interview has two thematic parts to it. The first part of the interview, we're going to talk about Modo and what it's like having a cooperative. We're going to go into the details of a co-op as well as the advantages and how they're structured. In the second part of the interview, Jane opens up about her own personal purpose and having found that purpose both in doing a job she loves and in doing something where that particular job in that company is making a positive impact to the world. That part of the interview is also really, really fun, so make sure when you watch, you watch her right to the end or listen right to the end. You're going to hear lots of wonderful gems that I hope help you find a job you love.

(: 01:09

Welcome to Up To So Good, the podcast that explores the purpose of business and today our guest is Jane Hope. She's the director of marketing and communications at Modo, our very favorite car-sharing cooperative. Welcome to our show.

Jane Hope (: 01:24

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Leena Manro (: 01:25

Well, how are you doing today? Modo, you guys, some big stuff have been happening at Modo?

Jane Hope (: 01:29

Yes, yes. Today was the first day for our brand new CEO, Sandra Phillips.

Leena Manro (: 01:35

Amazing.

Jane Hope (: 01:36

Who is such an expert on car share and shared mobility, and I'm excited about what she's going to do for Modo and in this space. Yeah.

Leena Manro (: 01:43

Tell me about Modo. What is Modo?

Jane Hope (: 01:45

Modo is a car-sharing cooperative. It is 27 years old and it was founded right here in the west end of Vancouver with two cars and eight members. It is now expanded to be about a thousand cars and 30,000 members All across British Columbia. Amazing. Yeah.

Leena Manro (: 02:04

Amazing. Amazing. That's part of your history I didn't realize, two cars and eight members?

Jane Hope (: 02:07

Yes.

Leena Manro (: 02:07

Oh my.

Jane Hope (: 02:08

Yes. A Geo Metro, no, a Firefly, a light purple Firefly was the first car.

Leena Manro (: 02:13

How long did it sort of work like that with the two cars, eight members?

Jane Hope (: 02:16

The two cars? We started growing almost immediately, so the old system, before we had smartphones, believe it or not, was they had the key in a lock box beneath the license plate, and you had to call in to Modo. There was a 24-hour phone line, someone had to take it home every night in case you called in late and you would manually book it off and then it was an honor system, if you wrote how far you've driven it in a binder.

Leena Manro (: 02:41

What a vision. But what was the mindset behind it? What really started? Do you know that story, kind of like the story behind story?

Jane Hope (: 02:48

Yes. We can start with that story. It was a group of people who thought that owning a car was a really wasteful model for them. The average privately-owned car is parked 95% of the time, which if you think about how much it costs you in term of maintenance and gas and everything, it's not very efficiently used. Modos are used far more frequently and so the idea with car sharing, it was a system that had been seen in Europe, I believe our founder had seen something on CNN about it or something like that, and then just put up a sign at a community meeting that said, "Do you want to start a car share with me?"

Leena Manro (: 03:30

Oh, my goodness. Okay.

Jane Hope (: 03:31

Can you imagine just putting up a sign, being like, "I'm going to start this. Do you want to be in?"

Leena Manro (: 03:36

And someone said, "Yeah."?

Jane Hope (: 03:37

Yes. And they pooled $500 each, which is still our share purchase, and formed a consumer co-op to co-own the vehicles together under the cooperative model.

Leena Manro (: 03:47

Amazing. One of the things about the guests that come onto Up To So Good, this is really a forum for businesses to talk about the things that they're doing that are really << Up To So Good >>

Jane Hope (: 04:00

Yes.

Leena Manro (: 04:01

Do you want to sing that?

Jane Hope (: 04:01

<< Up To So Good >>

Leena Manro (: 04:04

Oh, woo, I like that because Modo is definitely up to-

Jane Hope (: 04:06

So good.

Leena Manro (: 04:07

So good, so let's talk about that. How is Modo, in your words, an impact co-op?

Jane Hope (: 04:13

We are animated by what we call our social purpose or just our purpose, which is to connect people in places in ways that are affordable, convenient, sustainable and inclusive, and these four pillars is basically the lens on which we make all our decisions. When people are able to access vehicles, the right vehicle for them, they can go on trips, they can join clubs, they can make friends, they can start a business, they can take their grandmother to appointments, they can shoot movies, right? Lots of things happen because of access to vehicles, and so Modo really tries to execute on its social purpose in terms of inclusion and empowerment, as in making sure certain communities are able to access vehicles where they would not be able to have capacity to have fleets.

(: 05:03

This could include social enterprises in the downtown east side, driving people to appointments, dropping off food packages, making sure people get what they need. It could be arts organizations who need a van one week of the year to execute their film festival. We have a specific mandate that's derived from our members, because we're a very member-driven organization, to support queer communities as befits a company that started right on Davie Street and BIPOC communities as well to elevate them up and to make sure that they are able to access vehicles.

(: 05:43

A lot of people come to vehicles because they have generational wealth or generational access. They come from a family that can support them getting a car or using an old car or building off an old business or something like that. And we can really provide to those who don't have access to those, especially newcomers, people who are not beneficiaries of this hereditary practices, and that's really helpful for us.

Leena Manro (: 06:14

Well, that's the thing. Something that really struck me about Modo, A, it's a cooperative.

Jane Hope (: 06:19

Sure.

Leena Manro (: 06:19

What does that even mean?

Jane Hope (: 06:20

What does that even... Co-op?

Leena Manro (: 06:22

Yeah.

Jane Hope (: 06:22

Co-op means cooperative. It is actually a business model that was founded in the Victorian age in the UK by the Rochford Pioneers.

Leena Manro (: 06:35

You know a lot of this, this is really cool trivia, wow, because that's not your website.

Jane Hope (: 06:41

Because the pump weighs energy. Yeah, no, and it really was a model for people who could not access certain forms of finance to work together to access that kind of funds, so there are lots of different types of cooperatives. We're a consumer cooperative, so a bunch of people banding together to buy and own goods in common. You have housing cooperatives where people-

Leena Manro (: 07:09

I've heard about these, yeah.

Jane Hope (: 07:10

... band together to build a cooperative, shared housing complex together.

Leena Manro (: 07:16

So essentially in cooperatives, you pull your money together?

Jane Hope (: 07:19

Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly, yeah

Leena Manro (: 07:20

To buy that thing, whatever it is, whether it's, okay.

Jane Hope (: 07:23

And it's an equitable share purchase, so as long as you can meet the qualifications for entry, it's not a closed door club. And there's also worker co-ops when workers pool their funds together to build a shared co-op, so one of my favorite co-ops is called the Cleaning Co-op. It is a brand new co-op founded by newcomer women who wanted to work in janitorial services, clean houses, clean offices, but were tired of being exploited because the work is in a very exploited sector, but they came together to found their own worker's cooperative and through Solid State, which is a co-op incubator out in Surrey, and now they're very successful. They clean offices and houses and they like the work, and they are engaged in an empowering model where they own their company, they can set their hours, and they can decide on what they spend their profits on. For example, it was very important for them to access childcare very early on, that was not a priority of other employers.

Leena Manro (: 08:33

Why don't we see cooperatives more often? I mean, this is a strong community building type of a way to do business.

Jane Hope (: 08:40

I think a couple of things. I think we have a strong narrative of, and I know many people who do incredible work in this model, so I'm not deliberately throwing it under the bus or anything like that, but we have a lot of narratives of this person who's going to start their own business and they're going to access their own money and they're the visionary, they're the founder. A cooperative model literally says, "I am going to build in community and I'm going to have a shared vision." I always say the biggest skill in cooperatives is listening, listening to each other, listening to what... You are going to create something that is not only what you need but what other people need, so it's a very-

Leena Manro (: 09:19

Ah, that's amazing.

Jane Hope (: 09:21

... equitable model.

Leena Manro (: 09:22

Can you say that again? Just now, you said, "I'm going to a different vision. I'm going to build in community." Can you say that again?

Jane Hope (: 09:29

"I'm going to build in community and I'm going to not only create what I need, but I'm going to work to create what you need as well."

Leena Manro (: 09:37

Wow. Yeah. That's powerful.

Jane Hope (: 09:39

So that's a different way of, I think, looking at businesses, I think a lot of people are like, "Oh, I'm going to start my own business because this is the vision and I'm going to recruit people to be in this vision with me." And you kind of have that CEO, leader, founder, and that fits for some people, for other people, founding a co-op is really about, "I am going to create in community, and it's not going to be just about me, the founder, it's going to be about us together as a collective or a cooperative." As you will, so yeah.

Leena Manro (: 10:11

Whoa, that's interesting, because I think some people also go down the path of the corporate model because that's also all people know, right?

Jane Hope (: 10:21

Yeah. It's the predominant narrative in our society. We have tons of business schools, but there's only one cooperative school out at Saint Mary's in the Atlantic region, right? In Nova Scotia.

Leena Manro (: 10:33

And I went to business school, I went to business school back in the University of Calgary, many, many... I'm not going to say when, but many years ago, and there was not one course dedicated to the cooperative or cooperative model in any way, it's interesting.

Jane Hope (: 10:51

Yeah, credit unions are sort of another type of cooperative. As credit unions came about and be very popular because it was an ability for people to access credit and the ability to buy houses and have credit cards. I believe Vancity was the first financial institution in British Columbia to allow women to get mortgages.

Leena Manro (: 11:17

Wow.

Jane Hope (: 11:17

Right?

Leena Manro (: 11:18

To allow women to?

Jane Hope (: 11:19

Yes. Because they needed a male co-signer up until the 70s, I think? Yes.

Leena Manro (: 11:26

Oh, my God.

Jane Hope (: 11:29

And so I'm telling Vancity's story, but this is-

Leena Manro (: 11:33

That's such a dark fact.

Jane Hope (: 11:35

Yeah.

Leena Manro (: 11:35

Oh, my gosh.

Jane Hope (: 11:37

So this is the role of co-ops really, and credit unions caught steam, to allow people to access these things, and then we developed business school and we developed this entrepreneurial model, and it's great. I like it. It is great. All of those things, but I also think we have to think about, "You have to raise capital, you have to take out loans. Do you have collateral to support those loans?"

(: 12:06

And in Canada, especially in a society that's so driven by newcomers, people who are immigrants to this country, it can be really hard to access that capital, especially when you're trying to afford a house and afford a place to live and take care of your kids, so we don't lift up the cooperative model enough, and I think we really could look at it again as a way to-

Leena Manro (: 12:31

Oh, absolutely. Wow.

Jane Hope (: 12:32

... really drive economic growth.

Leena Manro (: 12:34

Is it easy though to start a co-op, or is there more red tape or more?

Jane Hope (: 12:39

I mean, I don't think there's more red tape. I think where it's really challenging is you have to have a community, which I think is actually really important for any business-

Leena Manro (: 12:53

Yeah, I agree.

Jane Hope (: 12:54

... to start off with. Like, "Who are you selling to or who are you working with?" All these questions, so you need to really work together. You need to find those people who are going to put up cash and co-op is about pooling resources, and that you mutually agree that there's a problem to be solved.

Leena Manro (: 13:15

So is everyone an owner then, essentially?

Jane Hope (: 13:17

Yeah, yeah.

Leena Manro (: 13:17

Everyone's an owner, so everyone who's a member is a shareholder, is an owner.

Jane Hope (: 13:20

Yeah.

Leena Manro (: 13:21

Voting?

Jane Hope (: 13:22

Voting, yeah, you have to have an annual AGM.

Leena Manro (: 13:24

Is it okay I'm asking so many questions about co-ops in general?

Jane Hope (: 13:26

Oh, nope, I was hoping you would.

Leena Manro (: 13:35

Oh, good. You have a new CEO, so how does it affect her vision?

Jane Hope (: 13:36

She will have to do what all co-op people who work at a co-op need to, they need to collaborate with community. I mean, first of all, she was selected by our board, right? Who are elected from the membership of the co-op. I always think it's a little funny. I work for Modo, but I'm a Modo member, so the Modo board also works for me.

Leena Manro (: 14:04

I see.

Jane Hope (: 14:06

It goes both ways.

Leena Manro (: 14:07

Right, right, right, yeah.

Jane Hope (: 14:09

And so it was really important to get people clear on our purpose, get people bought into that, we've done surveys to get people's feedback on that, and a lot of Modo members really are like, "This is important to me. It is important that Modo exists for something beyond just car goes to A or B." So that was the feedback.

Leena Manro (: 14:28

Yes. When we talk about the purpose of the business, I mean, Modo is definitely a business that has strong purpose, right?

Jane Hope (: 14:33

Strong purpose.

Leena Manro (: 14:34

Rather than being just a business for the sake of being business, for the sake of making money, for the sake of being a business.

Jane Hope (: 14:39

Well, also, I would posit that not a lot of... We talk a lot about social-impact businesses or social-impact business, and that means something to me. Yeah, I know what that means, but I don't actually think there's very few businesses that are just a business for the sake of being a business. We are all, in one way or another, working for social impact businesses. You think about a business like an oil company, they have a huge social impact on the communities that they work on, it's not a positive social impact necessarily.

Leena Manro (: 15:14

Ah, I see what you mean, I see what you mean, yes, yes, yes.

Jane Hope (: 15:19

I think we talk about social responsibility to the point that it's a little bit of a worn out phrase, but I think social purpose business or purpose-driven businesses acknowledge that their business existence is not value neutral. You existing and doing things means something.

Leena Manro (: 15:42

All businesses is going to have an impact, whether it's positive or negative, inadvertent or intentional.

Jane Hope (: 15:45

Intentional, yeah.

Leena Manro (: 15:47

Yeah, yeah.

Jane Hope (: 15:48

And I think social-purpose businesses sort of own that, so yeah.

Leena Manro (: 15:53

I see. That distinction is really interesting. Okay, I see what you're saying. That's such a great way to think about it. I've never thought about it like that because... And I'm sure a lot of people don't, I'm sure that, often when people think about business, there's the social impact businesses, which is confused with social purpose, and then there's the ones that just aren't, and they're doing business for the sake of business. But when you think about it, even them, they're impacting the world positive or negative and most times, if you're not thinking about it, often the impact is either neutral or negative often, right?

Jane Hope (: 16:23

Yup. Exactly. Yes

Leena Manro (: 16:24

I mean, unless, I can't think of one business that is not declared that intention and become very mindful of their purpose. I can't think of one that hasn't gone that route that is actually neutral or positive. Positive, can you think of one?

Jane Hope (: 16:40

I can't think of one off the top but I think sometimes it's accidental.

Leena Manro (: 16:44

Yes, maybe. But even that, can you think of one?

Jane Hope (: 16:48

No, I can't think of one right off the top of my head.

Leena Manro (: 16:49

Can anyone think of one? Pure silence. Okay. Yeah. I mean, the purpose of business often for many, really, one part of it, is to make money, but you can have profits, people on the planet.

Jane Hope (: 17:06

Yes, exactly.

Leena Manro (: 17:07

If you've shaped your business in that way.

Jane Hope (: 17:09

Yeah, I think you really can have all three, and you need to have all three.

Leena Manro (: 17:14

Yes, I agree.

Jane Hope (: 17:17

If one is out of balance, then you're ultimately not sustainable, not in terms of the planet, not in terms of your books and not in terms of your community contribution, right?

Leena Manro (: 17:29

Not in terms of even your own business, long term, right?

Jane Hope (: 17:32

Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.

Leena Manro (: 17:32

Because the world is changing and consumers and businesses and people, individuals working in the businesses, are demanding more. They're demanding to see between two options, A and B, which is the company that is actually purpose-driven versus the one that isn't.

Jane Hope (: 17:47

And because they're living in this world, right? Right now, we have communities that have been completely devastated by floods and fire and storms. It's no longer, "Can we prevent climate change?" It's, "How are we going to live with climate change?"

Leena Manro (: 18:07

Right, I agree with that.

Jane Hope (: 18:09

I would say profoundly that people are looking for sustainable answers to things, but they're also feeling anxious. We live in a really hard time and a lot of people come to Modo because it is more affordable than owning a car.

Leena Manro (: 18:28

And it is.

Jane Hope (: 18:29

It is, yeah.

Leena Manro (: 18:30

I've gone on your website, I actually did some of the math and some of the numbers, I thought, "Oh, wow. Compared to having to pay for everything from fuel, insurance, maintenance, wear and tear, parking, storage, all of that stuff, having a share and booking your Modo when you need to, it actually does work out, a lot cheaper."

Jane Hope (: 18:49

But we also are seeing people who are like, "I'm giving up my car for the reasons of the planet. I know this will help me save money. I'm so thrilled about that but also, we need to be making sustainable decisions, and it's not financially sustainable or ecologically sustainable for me to have a car anymore." Which I think is a really interesting and empowering conclusion for people to come to, but we're experiencing climate change now, we feel it. And yeah, co-ops are driven by their people. Literally, in our case, I realize what I just said.

Leena Manro (: 19:27

Literally, they're driving-

Jane Hope (: 19:28

They're literally driven but-

Leena Manro (: 19:29

... they're driving the cars.

Jane Hope (: 19:30

Yes, vroom, vroom. But when we march in the Pride Parade, people chant Modo's name.

Leena Manro (: 19:40

Oh, wow.

Jane Hope (: 19:42

And I remember asking someone like, "Oh, why are they doing that?" And they were like, "You've changed my life in such a meaningful way, right? I didn't think I could afford a car. I didn't think I could do this. I didn't think I could do that. But because of Modo, I was able to do all these things that I wanted to do, take a vacation, go swimming, move my sister, right? All those things."

(: 20:06

I'm a marketer. I love growth, right? Delivering on growth is kind of one of my things, but I'm starting to wonder if I'm an anti-growth marketer or the first anti-growth marketer, maybe not the first, but looking at instead of just growing, because a lot of these really, when you have lots of acquisition, a lot of new people coming, it's not healthy growth, it's growth that's either cannibalizing your company or dies off quickly, or it doesn't actually achieve its meaningful change, so how do we develop growth in a way that really shifts people's perspectives and changes the way that we look at them? One of the big metrics we track at Modo is not only member growth, but car shed. How many people sold a car or did not buy a car because they're a Modo member?

Leena Manro (: 21:01

And that is a measurement.

Jane Hope (: 21:02

Of success.

Leena Manro (: 21:03

Yes, absolutely.

Jane Hope (: 21:04

Right? Because for every shared car on the road, they estimate it's nine to 13 cars taken off the road, which I would invite anyone to go look down any street in Vancouver, count up 10 cars, and then just ask yourself, "What would we do with that space? In a city that's starving for housing and green space, what would we do if we had 10 fewer cars on the road?"

Leena Manro (: 21:34

Amazing.

Jane Hope (: 21:35

"Would it be safer for the kids outside? Would seniors have more space to walk? Would we have more plants?" Right?

Leena Manro (: 21:44

Would we have cleaner air?

Jane Hope (: 21:45

Cleaner air.

Leena Manro (: 21:46

To breathe. Would we be able to smell the actual scent of what Vancouver smells like as opposed to gas and fumes and exhaust?

Jane Hope (: 21:53

I don't know if you experienced this in the pandemic, but I noticed around April, May of the pandemic, how many birds I could hear from my apartment and that I could not hear them before because I could only hear cars.

Leena Manro (: 22:11

And I don't know the stats, but I mean, you probably do, you're a trivia champion here. What is the stats for car pollution? Is it like the number one air pollutant number? It's up there. It's got to be-

Jane Hope (: 22:26

It is up there.

Leena Manro (: 22:27

... in the top three.

Jane Hope (: 22:27

I don't know if I'm a trivia queen over just confidently saying things wrong, but I would say I do know that transportation is one of our biggest sources of greenhouse gases. I think it's second or third.

Leena Manro (: 22:39

Okay. Behind cows or something? Cows are pretty bad.

Jane Hope (: 22:43

Cows are pretty bad. Yes.

Leena Manro (: 22:44

The methane gas departing.

Jane Hope (: 22:46

Yes, yes, yes. But it is such a huge contributor to our CO2 emissions here in Canada, transportation and how we choose to get around. I would say we have always these little gotcha moments, over 10% of Modo's fleet is now EV.

Leena Manro (: 23:06

Amazing. Okay.

Jane Hope (: 23:09

So very, very easy to get an electric vehicle now if you're a Modo member but some people are like, "Oh, well, the mining is so extractive." And the thing is, there's no perfect solution, the trick is to keep that car on the road long enough that the carbon debt is sort of paid off, so it's about seven years for an EV, to become carbon-neutral.

Leena Manro (: 23:35

So your background, you've been with Modo now?

Jane Hope (: 23:38

Three years.

Leena Manro (: 23:39

Three. Okay. The reason I'm asking is it seems that you, personally, seem to have a passion for industries that are very environmentally friendly. Is that correct?

Jane Hope (: 23:48

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Leena Manro (: 23:49

So tell me about that.

Jane Hope (: 23:50

I would say I was always been interested in the impact and legacy I leave in the world. For me, seeing people make different choices and do so in a way that empowers themselves is really helpful. I think a lot of marketing is built up to make you feel bad about yourself, inadequate, fearful, not enough, right? "Your problems will be solved if you buy this lipstick." But I think there's a different way of looking at marketing where you can look at, "You're okay, you are fine. We can help you achieve your dreams. What do you want to do? What do you really want to do or what is something that's really holding you back?" And I think for Modo, it's about equipping you with transportation so you can really get out there and do the things that you want to do.

Leena Manro (: 24:49

Incredible. Do you feel... I mean, if you say no to this, I don't know where we'll go, but okay. Do you-

Jane Hope (: 24:57

Cancel.

Leena Manro (: 24:59

Do you feel that you are living your purpose? See, if you say no, I don't know, then we'll have to move to a different place.

Jane Hope (: 25:08

Yeah, something new, new. I do think I am. I think my purpose is something I'm always discovering about myself, and I do know that I have wishes, and one of them is to live a useful life and to really be inspired by those around me. So all of that to say, I feel like I've always tried to find how I can be useful and how I can live in a way that makes things better. Your wealth, in my opinion, is really rooted in your community. If you live in a healthy, happy, thriving community, then you are a really lucky person.

Leena Manro (: 26:00

It's the kind of abundance I don't think people talk enough about, but really.

Jane Hope (: 26:03

Yes.

Leena Manro (: 26:05

It leads to such a fulfilling life.

Jane Hope (: 26:06

It is a fulfilling life.

Leena Manro (: 26:07

It's so true. Absolutely. I mean, from the outside, it seems like, A, you're living your purpose and Modo is living its purpose and in order to do so, part of it is even recognizing, "What is my purpose? Why am I here? We are here for such a relatively short time. What are we going to do with this? Are we going to make this world better? Our lives better? Are those things, aren't they connected?" And so what do you say to somebody who, there's a lot of people out there who don't know what their purpose is?

Jane Hope (: 26:37

I would give those people a couple of pieces of advice. One is, imagine yourself a Tuesday of next year, right? And write it down. What are you doing if you could be doing anything? Not like a special day, just an average day, what are you doing? And really think through what you could be doing, what coffee shop would you go to, what emails are in your inbox. And just look at that bit of paper, look at that sort of vision that you've drawn for yourself, and how far are you today from where you are?

Leena Manro (: 27:20

Oh, I love that. Yeah, yeah.

Jane Hope (: 27:24

I always tell people to be very careful when they do this because it's almost like you're casting a spell for your future self. It is October 1st, we've kicked off spooky season, but I really do believe that. And then really look at that and be like, "What is about this person, who is me, what values are they emphasizing their life?" And really draw those out. I always then say, "Then I think you kind of have a sense of what you really value, two or three values, two or three words." And then be like, "What can I put on my calendar next week to help move me towards this goal a little bit?"

Leena Manro (: 28:09

Okay, this is something you do?

Jane Hope (: 28:11

Yeah.

Leena Manro (: 28:11

Yeah?

Jane Hope (: 28:12

Every month.

Leena Manro (: 28:13

Wow.

Jane Hope (: 28:13

And I sort of do a monthly goal setting ritual at the end of the month and I'm like, "Okay, what do we really want to do? How are we going to move myself a little bit further towards that?" Then I write out three or four goals, and then I have them in my to-do list, so I see them every day and I'm like, "How can I put something on my calendar that's going to move me a little bit closer to that?"

Leena Manro (: 28:40

That direction. How long have you been doing this?

Jane Hope (: 28:44

Two, three years?

Leena Manro (: 28:45

Yeah? Has it been working?

Jane Hope (: 28:47

Great. It was working great.

Leena Manro (: 28:49

Would you say that you're fairly joyful, you're happy?

Jane Hope (: 28:54

I think I have had enough sadness in my life. Not to get too real, but I have-

Leena Manro (: 29:01

You can get real.

Jane Hope (: 29:03

Yeah. I've had enough sadness in my life that I have been able to experience what joy is.

Leena Manro (: 29:11

Joy is something that I think a lot of people take for granted, and I think you can have purpose, you can make a social and an environmental purposeful impact, and you can still have joy. You can't forget about joy.

Jane Hope (: 29:24

Joy is a weapon.

Leena Manro (: 29:26

How so?

Jane Hope (: 29:26

Joy is a tool. It is a way of, I feel like you have to let joy in and joy brings in things like hope, it brings in motivation, it brings in-

Leena Manro (: 29:43

And creativity.

Jane Hope (: 29:43

... creativity.

Leena Manro (: 29:43

Creativity, yeah.

Jane Hope (: 29:44

Yeah. I have a great friend, Alistair Smith, who always talks about when we give into fear-based thinking, he tells a great story about when he ran into a bear while taking out the trash, but that's his story, not my story. When you are operating a fear-based paradigm, you have tunnel vision, you're not generous, you're not creative, you're not loving, you're thinking only about how can I take care of myself because you are fight or flight is activated.

(: 30:18

Once you get out of that and move into a space of acceptance and vulnerability and being willing to put yourself out there, you can start thinking creatively, you can start thinking hopefully, you can start thinking positively, and that really can help you take risks and we need to take risks, and I think it's totally okay to not be okay, absolutely.

Leena Manro (: 30:48

Yes, absolutely.

Jane Hope (: 30:50

But I think one of my favorite books is Voltaire's Candide and we even have the word panglossian, this idea of having just toxic positivity, I think we would call it now, refusal to be self-critical or to be critical of the world about, it's not helpful, it doesn't build resilience.

Leena Manro (: 31:17

I agree with you on that. Yeah, because you're eliminating the truth.

Jane Hope (: 31:20

Yeah, exactly.

Leena Manro (: 31:20

You've got to be truthful.

Jane Hope (: 31:21

You're not being truthful and I think if you don't hold onto what's real and you don't open yourself up and you don't actually interrogate your feelings, then you're never going to be able to access that joy, that peace, that optimism.

Leena Manro (: 31:38

I do agree with that. Yeah. Again, I'm going back to some of my cultural influences, in our culture, there's this sort of desire to find an unshakable joy that is not connected to anything going on in the outside. Of course, in my own family, my own culture, we really embrace practices of meditation and things that in the West are now, in the last maybe couple of decades, people are unearthing and en masse, like what yoga actually is, it's not just about stretching.

Jane Hope (: 32:16

No.

Leena Manro (: 32:16

It's not just about stretching my friends. Actually, even the word, I mean, yoga, it's just about union and really acknowledging the holistic nature of mind, body, soul, and really finding those spaces of unshakable joy. And the reason I bring this up is because I do think, just from observation, working in, we're a purpose-led agency as well, and I've had a past life where, past life meaning the past in this life, where I was a lawyer and really kind of just working and not really thinking about purpose or anything. But what I've noticed is that when you start to align yourself with your personal purpose and the purpose perhaps of your company, your work, you start to also align in places of finding resiliency and peace and joy and hope. All these things are deeply connected. Would you agree with that?

Jane Hope (: 33:09

I absolutely agree with that. I think, when you start deciding to... Because living in line with your purposes is often letting go of other things, and also I think having mature acknowledgement that sometimes some things that fit once don't fit anymore. I'm sure you were an incredible lawyer.

Leena Manro (: 33:30

It was pretty good.

Jane Hope (: 33:34

And I'm sure that was a perfect place for your role at the time, but it's not where it is now and so it's okay to let go of things. I think rigidity, speaking of yoga is not about stretching, but maybe it is about teaching you to be more flexible.

Leena Manro (: 33:51

Oh, damn that was good.

Jane Hope (: 33:57

Maybe the flexibility you seek is not in your hamstrings.

Leena Manro (: 34:01

If you're holding the mic right now, you could drop it.

Jane Hope (: 34:06

And I do think once you start living into your purpose and letting go of what is not for you, what is for you does show up.

Leena Manro (: 34:14

Oh, say that again, that's beautiful.

Jane Hope (: 34:16

When you start living into your purpose and letting go of what is not for you, what is for you will show up.

Leena Manro (: 34:24

You really should write this.

Jane Hope (: 34:26

I am thinking about starting a subset.

Leena Manro (: 34:28

I'm going to message you in a week and be like, "Hey, you know that thought leadership piece or that blog or something?"

Jane Hope (: 34:33

That piece that you had no plan to write? I'm waiting. I'm waiting.

Leena Manro (: 34:38

Purpose and joy and spirit and all of it, all of it together. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's the thing, when people are doing this kind of work because there's still also, I think, a mindset of people out there who are either working for organizations or maybe thinking about starting their own companies and not seeing the value of thinking through the purpose of their business, but that value, it affects all areas of your life.

Jane Hope (: 35:05

It does. It affects all areas of your life-

Leena Manro (: 35:07

In a positive way.

Jane Hope (: 35:08

... in a positive way or in a negative way. I think, living in alignment is a huge...

Leena Manro (: 35:13

As long as your purpose isn't serial killing, I'm sure that's not necessarily going to make you happy, unless it does and if that's the case, I don't know, that's not what we're encouraging.

Jane Hope (: 35:23

Not what we're encouraging.

Leena Manro (: 35:24

No.

Jane Hope (: 35:24

Also, never be afraid to seek the advice of a good therapist, that's what I always say.

Leena Manro (: 35:34

I do agree with that. I think that's fantastic.

Jane Hope (: 35:36

One of the most important things, empowering things, someone has ever said to me is that, "You are part of a situation. Your presence is informing the situation, so if you change, the situation has to change.

Leena Manro (: 35:50

That is, oh, we're going to sing it, << Up To So Good >>

Jane Hope (: 35:59

<< Up To So Good >>.

Leena Manro (: 36:00

That statement was Up To So Good.

Jane Hope (: 36:00

That's so good.

Leena Manro (: 36:00

Again, you need to remember that for your blog post.

Jane Hope (: 36:02

My blog post.

Leena Manro (: 36:03

I mean, I think that's the challenge to people who are listening and maybe people who are thinking about this idea of business and purpose and even personal purpose. It's evaluating our lives and being truthful, right? Not just painting a smile and being like, "Happy, happy, joy, joy, positivity." Because I don't believe that's real joy.

Jane Hope (: 36:20

No, it's not real joy.

Leena Manro (: 36:21

The real joy comes from looking at the truth and then being honest about what you really feel like could change to bring you in alignment with purpose, your whole purpose of being here, your business's purpose and your joy.

Jane Hope (: 36:36

And I think, that's the other thing, is you don't need to quit your job, right?

Leena Manro (: 36:44

Right. It doesn't have to be so drastic.

Jane Hope (: 36:44

Or start a new company. What is one small thing? Because really you are the sum total of your actions and really invited in, "What do I want to be doing? What is not good enough anymore? What needs to change?" And just doing one small thing and that was enough and things.

Leena Manro (: 37:08

That's really beautiful. I actually did it the other way.

Jane Hope (: 37:10

Oh, you just?

Leena Manro (: 37:11

I did quit.

Jane Hope (: 37:12

Yeah, you just jumped out of the way.

Leena Manro (: 37:13

Yeah, I just walked away. I actually really liked, my law job was fine, but the whole life situation was in a space of not being purposeful or fun or really in alignment with what I thought was my purpose of being here, which had to do with a lot more, I don't know exactly, but I thought it was more in the realm of arts and creativity. And so I'd left everything, left my city, left my relationship, left the job, left it all, and just kind of decided, "I'm just going to just jump and the net will appear." That's what people say, and it sort of did. It did. But I agree, there are going to be some people who, the truth is they do need to quit their job, and if they can figure out a way to do that and move forward, okay. And life might not look so pretty. I did create a big mess. Personally, I was living in a tiny little studio apartment for many, many years with very, very little money, but a whole ton of freedom and joy.

Jane Hope (: 38:07

I was in a job I hated and I broke my arm, and there was just something about the experience of feeling so vulnerable, made it clear to me that I had to make a change, so I quit my job.

Leena Manro (: 38:24

So you just quit?

Jane Hope (: 38:25

I just quit.

Leena Manro (: 38:27

But you said you had only done a little thing, step by step?

Jane Hope (: 38:29

Well,-

Leena Manro (: 38:29

That was before?

Jane Hope (: 38:30

... there's other jobs that I've done, little jobs, step by step.

Leena Manro (: 38:33

Okay, got it. You've had both experiences then?

Jane Hope (: 38:37

Yeah, I've had both experiences, yeah.

Leena Manro (: 38:37

Okay. Do you recommend maybe one over another?

Jane Hope (: 38:41

Oh, no. No. I think you will know what's the right thing for you, and I also think the world itself will, if you need to be given a big push, you'll be given a big push.

Leena Manro (: 38:56

I agree with that. Why is Modo called Modo? What does that stand for?

Jane Hope (: 39:00

It's inspired by, maybe short for, multimodal mobility, and multimodal transportation is when instead of being like, "I own a car and I drive everywhere." You have the whole set of options. You could bike downtown and then it's raining, so you take a car back or you grab the bus or all those pieces, so a multimodal ecosystem is a healthy ecosystem of varied choice.

Leena Manro (: 39:26

Oh gosh, that's so good. A healthy ecosystem of varied choice.

Jane Hope (: 39:33

Choice, yeah.

Leena Manro (: 39:34

Beautiful. What do you feel like is Modo's vibe or style?

Jane Hope (: 39:40

I think Modo's vibe is nerdy, playful and energetic.

Leena Manro (: 39:45

Nerdy, playful and energetic.

Jane Hope (: 39:52

I think of the old Weezer albums, you wouldn't know, but just kind of Modo will show up wearing tube socks and it'll be fine. I think of just an organization that knows a lot and is comfortable in what it does know, but is also willing to be quite offbeat.

(: 40:19

One of the things that we're really proud of and happy about at Modo right now is our brand new 16 art-wrapped vans.

Leena Manro (: 40:26

Ooh, tell me.

Jane Hope (: 40:27

We have 16 Chevy Express vans, which have not been updated since the 1990s, so they have that aesthetic. And so we decided to make them a little more fun, a little bit more Modo, and we wrapped them with 16 pieces of art, and we've been lucky to partner with a wide variety of artists from different backgrounds, really talking about the diversity of our communities that we serve, so you have these beautiful art-wrapped vans, but one of the things that we're most excited about is that we successfully partnered with the Vancouver Art Gallery and the Audain Museum in Whistler to wrap two vans in Emily Carr artworks.

Leena Manro (: 41:13

Oh, my goodness, how beautiful.

Jane Hope (: 41:14

So, they will be around, and I think that was a nice touch as a senior, local artist that her work could be shared in this way, so it's very exciting to have them. My favorite one is from the Latin American Society, it has a llama on it.

Leena Manro (: 41:35

Okay. I can't wait.

Jane Hope (: 41:37

Yeah, they'll be displayed in perpetuity.

Leena Manro (: 41:39

Look for those art-wrapped vans.

Jane Hope (: 41:40

Yes.

Leena Manro (: 41:41

That is so cool. Thank you so much for being part of our show.

Jane Hope (: 41:45

Oh yeah, it's great.

Leena Manro (: 41:46

Again, we've got Jane Hope, the director of marketing and communications from Modo with us, and we're so grateful that she joined us today. And special thank you to All Purpose, the host of this particular podcasting environment, and one of the companies I'm one co-founders of, All Purpose is a great company and also very special thank you to J Pod Creations for helping us create this podcast. Yay, J Pod. Okay, bye.

(: 42:12

Well, that's all the time we have for today's show. Thank you so much for joining us. And if you've enjoyed the show, please subscribe, hit the like button or share an episode. And if you have any feedback, questions or comments or show ideas, you can email us directly at hello@allpurpose.io. Thank you once again for joining us, we'll see you next time.