Cleaning Up Our Planet: The Tru Earth Revolution

Leena Manro (: 00:00

Welcome to Up To So Good, the podcast that unlocks the secrets of creating a purpose-driven business, so we can all make this world a better place. Come join the conversation. Hello and welcome to Up To So Good, the podcast that explores the purpose of business. I'm your host, Leena Munro. In this next episode, we'll be interviewing Anita Spiller. She's the VP of ES&G at Tru Earth. Now, if you don't know, Tru Earth is a really interesting and innovative laundry detergent. They basically create these biodegradable eco-strips that come in a cardboard container that's really flat and small, and replaces the need of using traditional laundry jugs. Definitely listen to this podcast, because we get into not just the actual product, which by the way was an overnight success, and I'm a little bit of a fan girl, but you'll hear about that in the episode.

(: 00:50

But we talk a lot about also the over-consumption of plastics and the fact that a lot of the plastic jugs for laundry does not get recycled. In fact, did you know that less than 10% of those laundry jugs are actually recycled? The majority of them actually end up in the landfills, which is terrible. But this episode is not terrible. It's a very good episode, so hope you tune in on, say, Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcasts or on YouTube, and I hope you enjoy this episode. Hello and welcome to Up To So Good, the podcast that explores the purpose of business. And today we have a wonderful guest from the company Tru Earth. This is Anita Spiller. She's the Vice President of Environment, Social and Governance or ESG, right? And we're really lucky to have her as a representative of Tru Earth, a laundry detergent that is actually in my closet, is one of my favorites.

Anita Spiller (: 01:41

Hooray. Thank you for being a change maker and thank you for having me.

Leena Manro (: 01:44

I'm totally biased, hey?

Anita Spiller (: 01:46

I love

Leena Manro (: 01:46

That. This is totally, and this is not an advert. We actually do connect with companies that are doing good, that are up to so good, that are impacting the world in deeply positive ways. And Tru Earth with the unique and awesome product that it has that has been tested by me, that has been tested by me. I really like it. I think I scared your CEO when I met him at an event and I was like, [inaudible 00:02:11]. It felt a little bit like a celebrity moment.

Anita Spiller (: 02:14

Like a fan girl.

Leena Manro (: 02:14

Yeah. It was a fan girl. Seriously, my CEO, when he knew, when I said, I was like, "Oh my gosh. That's the CEO of my favorite laundry detergent. He's right there." And he pulled me in so I could go say hi. It was so silly, but ... Because I'm so blown away by the product.

Anita Spiller (: 02:30

Well, isn't that funny, though, that you would have a favorite laundry detergent and you'd be fanning over the CEO? I think that's what makes us different.

Leena Manro (: 02:37

It does make you different. Well, thank you so much for joining us. And tell us a little bit about what Tru Earth is and why it is a unique laundry detergent.

Anita Spiller (: 02:46

Thank you for asking me. So we are proudly ... And for those of you who can watch this and see, I'm proudly wearing my B Corp pin today, because we are a proud B Corp organization. We started in 2019, we hold the patent, the global patent on our eco strip. And so the thing that we have done is we have really changed the category of laundry. So you might've heard of big oil and big gas. Well, what we're up against is big soap.

Leena Manro (: 03:13

Amazing.

Anita Spiller (: 03:14

So what we're trying to do is eradicate the plastic packaging.

Leena Manro (: 03:17

Yes.

Anita Spiller (: 03:17

So my future dream is when I walk down that laundry aisle in my local grocery store-

Leena Manro (: 03:23

There's no plastic.

Anita Spiller (: 03:24

... and there's no plastic packaging.

Leena Manro (: 03:25

I agree, yes.

Anita Spiller (: 03:25

Because what we've done is created a new category and we've proven that the format works.

Leena Manro (: 03:30

It does.

Anita Spiller (: 03:31

So you can use a sheet or eco strip format and you don't need that plastic packaging. Ours comes in 100% cardboard. You can recycle that piece when you're done. And that for me is why I work for this company, is because they have a really clear battle.

Leena Manro (: 03:46

My understanding is the actual material that's used is also fairly safe for the planet too-

Anita Spiller (: 03:53

Exactly. Yeah. So-

Leena Manro (: 03:54

Chemicals are very safe.

Anita Spiller (: 03:54

Yeah. So we want to use less toxics in our lives generally, I think, right? No one wants to be putting all these toxic chemicals on their clothing. They don't want to be wearing that for our own human health. We've all heard about the amount of plastics that we're consuming now, what we're wearing. The number of folks that tell me that they had an allergy and allergic reaction to their laundry soap, so they want something that's unscented. So I think that's part of the movement of B Corp, but I think it's part of the movement of consumers as well.

Leena Manro (: 04:22

I hope so. I think it is as well. And the more word gets out about the fact that we really need to do this. We need to do this for the planet. We need to this for ourselves, for the people. The fact that microplastics, they're everywhere. In one of our shows, an expert came in who is working on taking seaweed and turning that into a biodegradable film to make plastic unnecessary. It was very specifically used in the agricultural industry. You have to tune in and catch that podcast, but she really opened my eyes. I hadn't really delved into it, but the idea that people are even breathing in plastics, and as you wash your clothes, they're coming off of polyester and it's on our skin.

Anita Spiller (: 05:08

Polyester, which is just plastic, FYI people.

Leena Manro (: 05:10

Polyester is plastic.

Anita Spiller (: 05:11

It's plastic.

Leena Manro (: 05:12

You're wearing plastic.

Anita Spiller (: 05:13

You're wearing plastic. And part of it for me is if we want to see a plastic-free future, which I am hoping for-

Leena Manro (: 05:19

I agree. Yes-

Anita Spiller (: 05:20

... for my grandchildren, then we have to stop buying plastic. It sounds really simple and it is. If you want to see a plastic-free world, then stop buying plastic.

Leena Manro (: 05:30

We don't need it.

Anita Spiller (: 05:31

You don't need it.

Leena Manro (: 05:32

We really don't. We don't need it.

Anita Spiller (: 05:34

Many of it can't. You can't recycle a polyester outfit, especially if it has other kinds of materials and it's mixed. Less than 10% of plastic laundry jugs or recycled every year.

Leena Manro (: 05:46

Oh my gosh, what?

Anita Spiller (: 05:47

Less than 10%.

Leena Manro (: 05:48

What do they do? Majority of these, what-

Anita Spiller (: 05:50

It ends up in our landfills, which then the microplastics go into our watershed systems. They end up on beaches and they end up in our oceans.

Leena Manro (: 05:57

Is the problem that people are not putting it in their recycling? Or is it the problem when it gets to recycling depot, it can't be recycled?

Anita Spiller (: 06:05

It's very complicated, right? So municipal standards across the globe ... Not every facility in every neighborhood has the capacity for starters. It has a residue. It's very difficult to get all of your laundry detergent out of it. Even if you turn it upside down, even if you're trying to wash it out. So part of it is that it can't. Part of it is that it also might be a mixed product, and so you can't recycle often things that are mixed-

Leena Manro (: 06:30

It is mind-blowing. I don't think a lot of people know this. Do people know this? Do people know that you can't ... Say it again. Only 10%-

Anita Spiller (: 06:35

Only 10%.

Leena Manro (: 06:36

... of laundry jugs? A giant thing of laundry, plastic jug gets recycled.

Anita Spiller (: 06:41

But even the mass majority of plastics alone, depending on the stats that you read, it's less than 30%. And so mostly we're just wish-cycling. We're just like-

Leena Manro (: 06:49

What are we doing?

Anita Spiller (: 06:49

We're doing our job, right? Because big manufacturers have really put the reliance on consumers and they're like, "You have to recycle. You have to figure this out." And for me, that is not the answer to the solution. We have to stop producing them to begin with. And so I'm very proud to work for an organization that doesn't produce it to start with.

Leena Manro (: 07:07

I agree.

Anita Spiller (: 07:08

So we're not trying to eradicate it. We're not trying to get rid of something. We just choose to not develop it in the first place. And we've now proven the format that no one else needs to either.

Leena Manro (: 07:18

No, that's true. That's true. So this is the thing. This is what's so mind-blowing about this particular product. It is laundry soap, it is not liquid. It comes in little strips. It's very packaged, very conveniently, and I got to say that's also a big win. In addition to there being zero plastic, think about the typical laundry soaps. You've got this giant jug of plastic. Sure you can recycle, but again, in the recycling process, that's also creating a lot of energy use and water use, et cetera. But what Tru Earth has done, it's replaced all of that with ... I want people to picture. Do you have a package with you by any chance?

Anita Spiller (: 07:58

I do. I'll describe it for those who can't see this, but imagine a very highly concentrated, compressed detergent that comes in a strip. And so I'm going to rip it in half, because it comes in two parts.

Leena Manro (: 08:10

It's a tiny little strip for those who can't see.

Anita Spiller (: 08:12

Tiny little strip.

Leena Manro (: 08:13

It looks about as big as probably a business card. It's about as thin and wide and flat as a business card.

Anita Spiller (: 08:20

And so imagine a month's worth of laundry, the size of your cell phone.

Leena Manro (: 08:25

Amazing.

Anita Spiller (: 08:25

So 30 loads of laundry, 32 loads of laundry, the size of your cell phone, compared to what our competition is offering. And so imagine that big, giant, heavy jug full of liquid water, because the mass majority of it, around 80% is water, 20% is detergent. So basically we have created this eco strip so that we have taken all of the water out of it and only giving you the detergent that you need, because, frankly, when you're doing your laundry you're already using water. So there is no need to add more into the process.

Leena Manro (: 08:56

Now that makes sense.

Anita Spiller (: 08:57

Right? So for us, that does a bunch of things. So it eradicates that plastic packaging, which is our number one battle, that is the thing we are trying to eradicate. It also means that we're not shipping heavy liquid across the globe, because that is huge amounts of emissions that we just don't need. And so I live in a world where I can walk down the laundry aisle and see that there is no plastic packaging, because Tru Earth has proven-

Leena Manro (: 09:21

Ah, that's beautiful-

Anita Spiller (: 09:21

... the format-

Leena Manro (: 09:21

It has.

Anita Spiller (: 09:22

... That we no longer need that. And our greatest hope is that all of our competition will come alongside us and create their product using our format.

Leena Manro (: 09:32

And just also to be clear, so this podcast Up To So Good really has been created by our company All Purpose, also a B Corp in the hope and the effort to really amplify voices of companies and businesses for profit that are doing good in the world. To be clear, we're not taking any endorsements. It'd be great if I got that, what you brought as a sample. I would take it home and use it. Okay. If you're offering any gifts, I'll take this.

(: 10:01

But we're not getting paid to do this. We actually genuinely believe in Tru Earth. Personally, I'm a bit of a fan girl. Yeah. You can watch this video, we'll have this video, it's [inaudible 00:10:14] a podcast to be listened to, but if you do happen to go online and actually look up the video, you can see the packaging. Can you see the actual larger packaging here? So the actual individual strips are no bigger than a small, like a business card, but even the larger package that holds the strips is so tiny. It's like a thin little piece of cardboard that holds ... How much laundry will this do?

Anita Spiller (: 10:42

So that one is 32 loads.

Leena Manro (: 10:43

32 loads?

Anita Spiller (: 10:44

Yeah.

Leena Manro (: 10:44

Oh wow.

Anita Spiller (: 10:45

That might've been a sample pack. It might be an eight. But 32 will fit in that.

Leena Manro (: 10:48

Incredible.

Anita Spiller (: 10:48

So it was originally developed as a subscription, so that it could come in your mail slot. So originally, you'll remember way back in the day and during the global pandemic, when you couldn't get laundry detergent. You'd walk into a grocery store and the shelves would be empty. So for us, that was a real launch point for us, because we had this subscription model-

Leena Manro (: 11:07

Oh, you could just mail it.

Anita Spiller (: 11:08

... where it could be delivered to your house. And so basically we were just putting a label on the packaging and it would literally slide through your mail slot.

Leena Manro (: 11:15

Amazing.

Anita Spiller (: 11:15

Because part of it for us is we didn't want to put more trucks on the road. There are already Canada Post, US Postal for the friends that are listening in the US to this, that it could come immediately to your house and that was really appealing for people. And also its small format means that it doesn't take up a lot of space in your laundry room. So if you live in an apartment or ... My 89-year-old mom uses it in her tiny apartment, but it means she also doesn't have to carry a heavy jug home.

Leena Manro (: 11:39

Agreed. Agreed. I love that. I personally benefit from that. So I am a very loyal customer. And just last night I was actually looking at the packaging and marveling at the fact that I don't have to find storage space for it, because it just slips in very simply and very easily in the little crevice behind where I keep my clothes. And also I'm a very small framed person. I do not enjoy carrying giant jugs of laundry as well. So there's so many benefits, but ultimately, does it clean clothes? That's what people want to know.

Anita Spiller (: 12:14

It does. And I think part of it for us is while it is really good for the planet, it is also easy. One strip, one load, you literally throw it in-

Leena Manro (: 12:24

And it's actually effective.

Anita Spiller (: 12:25

... in the washing machine where your clothes go. And it does work, because that's what matters to customers more than anything. I think, yes, we want to often do what is right for the planet. We want to use eco-friendly products, but if that product doesn't work-

Leena Manro (: 12:38

Agreed.

Anita Spiller (: 12:38

... if it's not effective, then-

Leena Manro (: 12:41

It becomes-

Anita Spiller (: 12:42

[inaudible 00:12:42] A story, recently I was wearing my favorite sweater, and I talk with my hands. I talk a lot with my hands. I happen to be talking with a pen in your hand. That is never a good idea. And I ended up with this very large pen mark across my very favorite sweater, and I was like, "No!" And then I thought, "All right. This is a very good test, we have a brand new stain stick out there." And so I got out the stain stick and I followed the instructions and I did rub that and I threw it in with my truth laundry detergent, and it came clean.

Leena Manro (: 13:11

That's incredible. Very nice.

Anita Spiller (: 13:12

I was super impressed, because I think often what we do is we throw all of this detergent at a stain, right? So we'll have one stain on one item of clothing, but we're throwing all this laundry detergent at our entire load. And I think what folks are starting to recognize is they are washing their clothes less, they are washing on cold water because that's better for the planet. They are washing on the gentle cycle, so we don't get this micro shedding in our clothing.

(: 13:39

And so what we're hoping is that folks will attack the stain at source. So use our true stains to get rid of the stain and then wash it as you normally would in cold water, on that gentle cycle, because I don't know about you, but clothes are expensive and I want to protect my clothes. I do buy a lot at vintage and thrift stores. I don't want to buy new things. But what I do have, I want to take care of it. I think part of it, too, is our ultimate dream is that every cleaning product that's in your bathroom, in your kitchen, in your laundry room will be in this format. And so it has been a pretty easy transition for us. We developed a toilet bowl cleaner. We have a multi-service cleaner-

Leena Manro (: 14:19

Oh, I have that. I forgot about the toilet bowl cleaner. That works out very well as well.

Anita Spiller (: 14:22

Well, so funny story about the toilet bowl cleaner. So dyes are not particularly good for the planet, fragrances are not particularly good for the planet. And so we thought we're going to be the company that doesn't use a dye in our toilet bowl cleaner. And so the first iteration came out and it was clear. Well, most toilet bowl cleaners are-

Leena Manro (: 14:40

Blue.

Anita Spiller (: 14:40

... blue, because mass manufacturers have convinced us that there's something in the color blue [inaudible 00:14:46] that it somehow cleans better. The color doesn't make any difference. I hate to tell you folks, but it doesn't make a difference. And so ours was not flying off the shelf. People would try it, because they would make this connection to, "Well, it doesn't really foam because consumers also think that foam means clean, blue-

Leena Manro (: 15:03

Which it doesn't. Yeah.

Anita Spiller (: 15:05

... clean. So we did put a few drops of blue in our toilet bowl cleaner-

Leena Manro (: 15:07

That's what I'm noticing. Yes.

Anita Spiller (: 15:09

So it is there. It is all natural, because I think we're having to retrain consumers and break them of those lessons. And we're also trying to change behavior. And especially in terms of our favorite brands, it's really hard as consumer to be like, "You're asking me to change my brand." And when it comes to laundry, it is often the brand that our family of origin gave us, right? Often Mom gave it to you when you got your first apartment.

Leena Manro (: 15:34

Makes sense.

Anita Spiller (: 15:35

Or maybe you went off to university or college. And so when you ask folks, why do you use your current laundry? They'll think, "I think that's what my mom uses." So we're asking consumers to go against Mom. But we do want you to try it and then we want you to convince Mom to try it too.

Leena Manro (: 15:53

Yeah. That's so true. I never thought of it that way, but I guess it's tied to memories. The certain scent that laundry detergent and dryer stuff, the dryers as well-

Anita Spiller (: 16:04

And just have it. And humans really want it to be easy. No one wants to go to the grocery store and have to try to recreate everything. And so my best piece of advice for folks who are at home, it's like, wait till your current laundry detergent is empty. And then, when it's empty, then try to make a better choice. Go to the laundry aisle, look at the ingredients on the back of the envelope, look at the type of packaging it is, and then make that change. And then, when your fabric softener runs out, then choose Tru Earth and laundry detergent and everything in your life-

Leena Manro (: 16:32

[inaudible 00:16:33] And other things as well. Exactly. When we talk about polyester, discovering that polyester is pretty much plastic. Okay, that's not a connection, I think, again, a lot of people make. You know it on the surface, but to know how is this affecting you? You are wearing plastic 24/7 if the majority of your clothes are polyester. And it takes time, but when they get to a point where it's time to give them away, maybe the next choice is something that is 100% organic cotton or wool.

Anita Spiller (: 17:00

Wool is really great. Yeah. And I think it's like anything, right? We're making choices. It's sometimes you just do the best that you can and I don't think consumers need any more pressure.

Leena Manro (: 17:11

I think Tru Earth, it's really revolutionary in terms of what you're doing. I can't believe it wasn't thought of sooner, something like this, because-

Anita Spiller (: 17:21

Well, funny enough, it sat on the shelf for seven years.

Leena Manro (: 17:23

That was my next question. Tell us the origin story. I know a little bit about it, because I asked your CEO and I was just like, "What?" So can you share with us the origin story of this beautiful product.

Anita Spiller (: 17:32

Brad as our CEO will often tell the story that the inventor of the product was a family friend, and he was a scientist more than anything. And what he lacked was the capacity to tell the story, the capacity of tell the impact of it, to tell folks why it really mattered. And so, one of our co-founders who has a lot of young children, had a lot of plastic in his life, as you can imagine. And he was feeling a little bit overwhelmed, I think. There was some eco-anxiety around the future for his children. And so this product had been on the side of their desks for a while, and it was a family friend, so they wanted to help him. And so they really did a test and they really wanted to just test the market to see whether this would get picked up by consumers. And the results were phenomenal, like a tenfold on what the original to-go plan was.

(: 18:27

And what they really found was, and especially in 2019, and then in the early days of the pandemic, we really had a big lift in our product at that time. But what we found were consumers that really wanted to follow our movement, that they really wanted to get on board. They maybe had been environmentalists for a long time and didn't have the product. Maybe they had children that come home from school with environmental knowledge, which happens, right, when you have grade four, grade five, grade six kids who are trying to, they come back home. And maybe they're doing a waste audit, or maybe they're talking about recycling at home, and then they're looking at the parents who think, "Uh-oh, I have to do better. My kids are questioning me now."

(: 19:08

Maybe you're a new mom. New moms are really one of our core demographics when they're bringing new life into the world and they look around their homes and they think, "I don't want fragrance, I don't want plastic. I don't want things that are bad for my baby's human health." And so at that time, many expecting parents are looking around their homes and trying to make a change and do something different. And so for us, I think that's why it's the core of who we are. Many of us are in that demographic of just wanting to do better for our kids, for our grandchildren. I hope one day I have grandchildren, and I hope one day we're walking down the laundry aisle and that there's no plastic, there's just cardboard or, better yet, something that's made from vegetables, that I can be just really proud of working for an organization that's living out these core values every day.

Leena Manro (: 20:03

So basically, was this product then an overnight success? Is that what happened? What was the difference in terms of-

Anita Spiller (: 20:10

It really was, yeah.

Leena Manro (: 20:11

Was it the marketing that changed?

Anita Spiller (: 20:13

It really was the marketing. And I think it was the product format. I think it was something that no one had ever seen before, because we did create this category. And so I think folks are genuinely interested in something that is unique and different. There isn't much different in the world anymore. So when something that is so different, so counter to what our normal patterns are ... We had some incredible marketers right off the top who had some incredible ways to tell the story and to make it fun. When would you ever say, "I'm fan-girling over a laundry company?"

Leena Manro (: 20:47

I know. I did say, I said it to him, to your CEO.

Anita Spiller (: 20:49

Yeah. So I think part of that is it was unique. And then the pandemic did hit and folks were having a hard time getting the product. And so anytime you could have something delivered to your house and you didn't have to go to the scary grocery store ... Remember those days?

Leena Manro (: 21:04

Yeah, it's true.

Anita Spiller (: 21:06

Where it's like, "Oh, that's just going to come to my house, so we're going to get it on subscription. It's going to come regularly, and I just don't have to worry about that-

Leena Manro (: 21:12

To think about it. So tell me what that was like to be in a traditional laundry aisle.

Anita Spiller (: 21:19

So kudos to the laundry buyers out there who have not kind of relegated us to the natural products section, that we are in the traditional laundry aisle. So it gives that customer the opportunity to make that comparison and make that choice, because we want to be up against the big soap. We want our consumers and our customers to be able to just look at what the options are and to make those choices. We're also seeing better placement for us. In the early days, we were stuck on the bottom shelf, which is really hard for consumers. So everyone wants to be at eye level. Everyone wants to be at the mid. Sometimes we're on a top shelf, but that's okay. We really are getting what they call multiple facings now. And so the ideal for us is that we can grow and expand and get into all of these retailers. And we're having some really great success in the US.

Leena Manro (: 22:10

That is wonderful to hear. Yeah.

Anita Spiller (: 22:12

And so it's hard work to get it in there, but I am excited that we're in that traditional laundry aisle giving consumers a choice.

Leena Manro (: 22:22

Yes. There are probably a lot of interesting facts about the laundry industry that people don't know about. Can you share with us some maybe, I don't know, things that are not known, commonly known?

Anita Spiller (: 22:32

Yeah. I think the amount of plastic waste that is produced by consumer-packaged goods company as a whole ... So if you're looking for a visual, so if you've been to New York City, imagine Central Park, which goes for blocks and blocks and blocks and blocks and blocks-

Leena Manro (: 22:47

It's huge, massive.

Anita Spiller (: 22:48

It's massive. Now, imagine the Empire State Building.

Leena Manro (: 22:51

Yes.

Anita Spiller (: 22:52

So it's 110 floors. So imagine Central Park as high as 110 floors full of plastic containers. So that is the amount of plastic that is produced globally every single year.

Leena Manro (: 23:09

For plastic containers? Specifically laundry or everything?

Anita Spiller (: 23:12

Everything.

Leena Manro (: 23:13

Wow.

Anita Spiller (: 23:13

Yep. Consumer-packaged goods. That is a lot of garbage.

Leena Manro (: 23:18

Yeah. So tell me about, your role is really unique and really important and powerful, and a lot of companies don't necessarily have a department ESG, let alone the vice president of ESG. Can you tell us about your day to day? What do you do?

Anita Spiller (: 23:35

I think that's a great question. I am so honored to be able to wake up every day and try to do the impossible, because it really is, sometimes the work of the impossible. Many of your listeners might be thinking, "How do I even get started?" So I've been with them since April 1st, 2020, so coming up on four and a half years. And so it's been a long journey, and I didn't start with a team.

Leena Manro (: 23:58

Oh wow, you're doing it solo.

Anita Spiller (: 24:00

Yeah. So for the first year or so, it was me and a part-time colleague. And then, as our programs began to develop, we started. And mostly it was folks that were already working in the organization. So the woman who is the head of the ESG team right now, she started in customer service.

Leena Manro (: 24:16

Oh, I just want to back up a second. Again, ESG, that is an acronym that many people are maybe familiar with, but it means environmental, social, governance, and especially, essentially all the good, good, good impacty things-

Anita Spiller (: 24:29

Exactly.

Leena Manro (: 24:30

... in the world.

Anita Spiller (: 24:31

You might think, "I don't know what that means," and my advice to folks is make it your own. So my environment, my "E" might not necessarily be someone else's.

Leena Manro (: 24:42

Oh, I see.

Anita Spiller (: 24:42

So when we say "ESG," we mean "E" environmental. We mean our incredible environmental products and the good that we're doing there. When we say "S" and we mean social, we're talking about our world-class donation program where we've given 50 million loads of laundry to more than 1,400 organizations in 19 countries. That's what we mean by social, our social responsibility piece. And then when we mean "G" we mean the governance, the way in which our board is structured, the makeup of our staff.

(: 25:16

I'm super proud that for us, and these things matter, 25% of our hourly workforce come from community living. So that means they have some sort of a disability. And so that's an important part of our workforce, and that's a part of our "G," and that matters for us. But your "G" might be different. Your "S" might be different, your "E" might be different.

Leena Manro (: 25:38

Right. Makes sense.

Anita Spiller (: 25:38

And so the work that I do every day is to really build the global ESG strategy for the coming three to five years. Where will the company be three to five years from now? And what matters to us? And so I look at everything from should we become B Corp certified?

Leena Manro (: 25:56

You made that call and you did it.

Anita Spiller (: 25:59

We did, and we decided that that really mattered for us, partly because we were already doing it, right? Partly because we felt like we're already a part of that club. We are prioritizing good for planet and people, while also making a profit, because the three can go hand in hand.

Leena Manro (: 26:16

And it's not easy to be B Corp certified. And for many listeners, some may not know what B Corp certification is. I just want to reiterate, it is a third-party standardization certification run by B Lab. And a wonderful analogy that often people bring up is it's like the way organic certified is in, say, produce, that's what becoming B certified is for a company.

Anita Spiller (: 26:40

Mm-hmm. And it is really hard to certify.

Leena Manro (: 26:43

It's really hard.

Anita Spiller (: 26:43

Yeah. The standards are really intense. And when we first put it, and we really started with a materiality assessment, trying to decide what is material to our business, what matters to our stakeholders, what matters to our customers? To our consumers, to our stakeholders in terms of our board members and our staff. And that was something that really mattered for them.

Leena Manro (: 27:05

Beautiful.

Anita Spiller (: 27:06

We're just about to launch an internship program, which has been on the list for a really long time, to really help and support folks, but it just takes time. And we're a busy org and we're going fast. And we often joke that what other organizations do in a month, we do in a week,

Leena Manro (: 27:23

Oh wow.

Anita Spiller (: 27:23

... because moving so fast and you can't see, but I'm wearing my running shoes today, because running fast and we think we have to go faster. The planet's in trouble and everyone needs to strap on their running shoes. Forget the high heels, ladies.

Leena Manro (: 27:37

100%.

Anita Spiller (: 27:37

We need our running shoes on-

Leena Manro (: 27:38

100%.

Anita Spiller (: 27:39

... so that we can go faster for the planet. And so B Corp has allowed us to do this really good evaluation, see where our holes are and make changes. Because when you see something, you have to say something. And when you know better, you have to do better.

Leena Manro (: 27:54

Mm-hmm. There are companies that don't have the resources to, say, become a B Corp. And so what recommendation do you have for them if they want to prioritize ESG? And without the ability necessarily to put more resources behind it?

Anita Spiller (: 28:09

Yeah. And I think we do have to be careful on what we're accounting, what we're qualifying for, how many certifications we're going after. Because for every time we're spending time, energy and money counting something, it means that you're not doing the work-

Leena Manro (: 28:22

Yeah. It's true.

Anita Spiller (: 28:23

... that you're not servicing your clients, you're not prioritizing those revenue channels. So I think we do need to be careful. Part of, I think, my first recommendation for folks who think like, "Oh, how do I get started?", I think it's to do a materiality assessment. I would start there. And whether you do it in a formal way, and again, hire an agency who's a professional in doing that to figure out what is material?what matters to your family? What matters to your customers? What matters to your board or to your executive suite? And then tackle those.

(: 28:55

And then the other thing I would say, look around and see what you're already doing. It's like making a dinner. Sometimes you don't always want to go to the grocery store. Sometimes you want to just look and see what's in your pantry? What's in your freezer? What's in your fridge? What needs to be used up? And I think the same can apply for ESG. What are the things that you're already doing and where do they fall under those categories?

Leena Manro (: 29:20

I see.

Anita Spiller (: 29:20

Like, what is your environmental impact? You might start as easy as looking in your waste. Do a waste audit. For us, when we first looked in our waste and saw all kinds of soft plastic for a company who's trying to eradicate plastic-

Leena Manro (: 29:34

Oh my.

Anita Spiller (: 29:35

Right? You need soft plastic. We have things on skids that need to be wrapped. And so talk about making mistakes. We look at all kinds of things like, can we not use shrink wrap? Can we use strapping? Strapping is good for some purpose, it just wasn't good for us, because we are shipping to Ontario. So in the end, we did find a biodegradable shrink wrap.

Leena Manro (: 29:58

You're kidding.

Anita Spiller (: 29:58

Nope. So part of that for us was, then we have to make sure that our waste source can take that, for starters. And so part of it might be just, what is your product or what is your service? And what is the waste that's coming off of it? And can you reduce that source? Can you just stop producing that? And when we first did our audit, our folks were double-wrapping all of our skids, because they thought more is better. And I think most people think that, right? If it can be wrapped once, twice is going to be better, that's going to be better. But in the end, when we showed them the testing and that we were able to just cut our use of shrink wrap down first-

Leena Manro (: 30:39

Wow, that's huge.

Anita Spiller (: 30:40

... that meant half as much product was going into the waste stream. And waste is not free. So if you can cut your waste, then you can also cut your costs. And that's the thing that's really going to make people stand up. Carbon isn't free. Carbon costs money. So if you can prove to folks that if we can help you from an ESG team strategy cut your carbon, we're also going to cut your budget, which means that you're going to have more money-

Leena Manro (: 31:06

You're going to save money. That's beautiful.

Anita Spiller (: 31:07

... to do some other things.

Leena Manro (: 31:07

You're hitting the bottom line.

Anita Spiller (: 31:08

Right? And sometimes that is the place you have to start. We celebrate a lot too. And I think that's another advice that I would have for folks. We have our team celebration song, old school, "Celebrate good times. Come on," when somebody does something good-

Leena Manro (: 31:22

That's fun.

Anita Spiller (: 31:23

... we stop and sing and celebrate, I think. And we have a lot of entrepreneurs within a highly entrepreneurial company-

Leena Manro (: 31:31

Beautiful. I love that.

Anita Spiller (: 31:33

... and we are looking for that when we're hiring staff, because we want them to own it. I think many of them have the skills of astronauts, frankly. They get up every day and try to do the impossible, because ESG work is hard.

Leena Manro (: 31:48

Yeah. It is hard.

Anita Spiller (: 31:49

It really isn't for everybody. Lots of folks don't understand what it means. Lots of folks don't think it has anything to do with them, and they just have their jobs to do. They just want to do their jobs and they don't want Anita and her crazy team being like, "Hey, can I talk to you about your ESG accountability? Hey, can I talk to you about-

Leena Manro (: 32:07

Can I talk to you about your plastic usage?

Anita Spiller (: 32:08

Yeah. "Can I talk to you about-

Leena Manro (: 32:08

Shrink wrap.

Anita Spiller (: 32:11

"Hey, we'd like to put all of your product on rail instead of in trucks, when you want to ship it between our two plants." And they go, "What?" But they in the end have done it. We have made these huge changes-

Leena Manro (: 32:25

That's incredible.

Anita Spiller (: 32:25

... in getting everything off the road and onto rail.

Leena Manro (: 32:28

Yeah. To reiterate, you don't necessarily need to become a B Corp. We're big B Corp fans. I'm fan-girling again. I'm fan-girling about your product and just being a B Corp. I love B Corp. But looking at your internal processes and doing a materiality assessment, I got that a little confused with maybe like a values assessment. Is it similar? I'm not sure, because that is what we do, is internally look at, well, what are our values? And the clients we take on the projects we do, are they aligned to our values or not? And is that the same as, or different from materiality?

Anita Spiller (: 33:03

Yes and, I would say. I think part of it I think is hard for folks, because our values and our critical cause, which is to make true lasting change to help save the planet, is in the core of our being. It is in the fabric of who we are.

Leena Manro (: 33:20

Can you say that again? Your purpose or business is-

Anita Spiller (: 33:22

Our critical cause is the true lasting change that helps save the planet. And we say "helps," because we know that we can't do it alone. And we say "the" planet, because it doesn't belong to us. We're stewards of the planet and I think every time we take ownership of something like, "that's mine, that belongs to me," that is really counter to the collaboration that we need to move forward. But I work for an organization where I get to report direct into our CEO. And I often say, "Where your money is, your heart is also." And so I would ask folks, where are your sustainability people and where do they report to? If they report to public relations, that's really saying something.

Leena Manro (: 34:07

Good point.

Anita Spiller (: 34:08

If they're into finance, then maybe it is just a financial piece, and maybe you haven't yet started on your journey for social responsibility. Maybe if you're into legal, it becomes a risk conversation, which is true. There is lots of risk around ESG and what the future looks like. And I'm super excited, I get to report into the CEO, who really has this big heart for the business and what matters. So I think in terms of core values, it matters what you stand for and who you are and how you live that out every day. So I think that is an important conversation, but I also think the materiality piece takes in all those other things.

Leena Manro (: 34:49

Gotcha. Yes.

Anita Spiller (: 34:49

What are the risks to the organization? What matters to your customer? What's important to them? Because what the customer wanted five years ago is very different from what they want now. I think especially in these economic times, they want to be able to buy environmentally friendly products without paying 25% more. They really can't afford to do that. And the folks that are most impacted by the climate crisis have the least capacity to buy the products that will help them. So we have to look at what that means. Materiality is everything from what does the justice work look like in your organization? What is the diversity? What is the board structure?

(: 35:32

And then what really matters? And what we found was you get a list of 50 things, but those things bubble up to the top that are material. Or maybe they're double material, which means that they matter to your core value, but they also have this financial implication or risk as well. And so when you get that list, I think you'll quickly see what are the things that are most important for the organization. And it also will give you a plan moving forward, because we can't do everything all at once. And if we have 10 priorities, we have none.

Leena Manro (: 36:04

Yes. That's a very good point.

Anita Spiller (: 36:05

So what are the one or two things that you're going to be able to run to ground really quickly, that'll make this huge difference for folks? And in the end, you might decide it is B Corp, that is the thing that I want to lean into. If you're a woman-owned business or a woman of color, there are some extra resources for you. And so you can lean into that piece as well. I think part of it is just starting small. What are the first things you can do, and not try to do it all at one time? We're still not doing it all at one time and we've been on this journey for more than five years. There's a long way to go.

Leena Manro (: 36:42

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Anita Spiller (: 36:44

One at a bite at a time. Yeah.

Leena Manro (: 36:48

So you had talked about this, how cleaning detergent actually has 80% water. But why is that the case? Because why aren't more cleaning detergent products designed to be more concentrated, so you just use a little less?

Anita Spiller (: 36:59

Well, I can suspect.

Leena Manro (: 36:59

Why?

Anita Spiller (: 37:05

Well, part of it is many consumer-packaged goods companies are trying to get to use more product.

Leena Manro (: 37:10

But it would be the same thing, wouldn't it? They actually would save money, because they would be shipping it out in a smaller container. You'd use a thimbleful. Right?

Anita Spiller (: 37:19

More is better, though. We live in a society-

Leena Manro (: 37:21

It's a psychological thing-

Anita Spiller (: 37:23

... especially in North America. And imagine, maybe you're using a liquid now and it has the cup, and you probably notice it has the lines in it, right?

Leena Manro (: 37:30

Yes.

Anita Spiller (: 37:30

So it has the small, medium, large, extra large.

Leena Manro (: 37:33

Well, when I used liquid laundry detergent, yes.

Anita Spiller (: 37:36

The mass majority of people would never be able to tell you what the difference is. And so the mass majority of people are using a full cup every time, because more is better. "It's going to clean better if I put more in there." And so often they're using four loads' worth of liquid.

Leena Manro (: 37:53

Oh, wow. Really?

Anita Spiller (: 37:54

And so you might see on the jug that you're using that it's 32 loads. But if you're using three or four more times, your cost per load goes way up.

Leena Manro (: 38:06

Right. Okay. That makes sense.

Anita Spiller (: 38:07

They want you using a liquid.

Leena Manro (: 38:08

That makes sense now, right.

Anita Spiller (: 38:09

Right?

Leena Manro (: 38:10

Yeah. Oh, I never thought of it like that. That's another fun fact. Okay, so only 10% of laundry jugs get recycled, and 80% of the liquid detergents are actually ... It's 80% of that is water. Only 20% is actually detergent.

Anita Spiller (: 38:24

And you don't need water, because when you put your laundry-

Leena Manro (: 38:27

You're using water.

Anita Spiller (: 38:28

... in there, you're already using water. And so part of that is, what if you laid that lens onto everything else?

Leena Manro (: 38:33

I feel like we need to pause for effect, so listeners can just think through that statement. What else has mostly water? What else are we consuming that we don't need to in the amounts that we are, because of the way it's packaged, or the way it's presented, or the psychological effect of that? What are some of the products actually that are like that? I suppose-

Anita Spiller (: 38:52

Well, think of a single-use water bottle.

Leena Manro (: 38:54

Oh yeah, that's the worst.

Anita Spiller (: 38:55

It takes six times the amount of water that's in the water bottle to create the water bottle.

Leena Manro (: 39:02

Yeah. Please don't do single-use water bottles. Please, everybody. Everybody, please no more.

Anita Spiller (: 39:08

Right? Especially in North America where we have some of the best and cleanest water. Partly is, we have just been told that the water that is flowing from our taps, or it's like, "I don't like the flavor. I think there's something wrong with it." Or, "Maybe it has fluoride or it doesn't." And it's just like many of the things that we used to do, that I think we need to lean into the wisdom of our elders who would never waste water.

Leena Manro (: 39:34

Absolutely.

Anita Spiller (: 39:34

But we're really looking for convenience.

Leena Manro (: 39:37

Yeah. That's so true.

Anita Spiller (: 39:38

Right? And again, it's not that you should never, ever use a single-use water bottle. But use it when you're in a moment of crisis and it's an emergency-

Leena Manro (: 39:46

Exactly.

Anita Spiller (: 39:47

... not as our every day, where we're going to a mass-market retail and we're buying it by the case. I think we have to understand, too, what are we personally battling? What are our personal goals and what matters to us? And I also believe clean clothes are a human right. I think every child should be able to go to school and have clean clothes. I think humanity generally deserves that. And so at Tru Earth we're battling hygiene poverty, which is a thing.

Leena Manro (: 40:19

Yes. Yes.

Anita Spiller (: 40:19

Lots of people in the world do not have access to laundry detergent, to laundry services to have the capacity many of us who are privileged enough who have laundry in our own homes, that don't even have to go to a laundromat to do that. And I'm proud to work for an organization that we prioritize making sure that we are supporting food banks and shelters across the globe to make sure it's the second most requested item at food banks.

Leena Manro (: 40:46

Is that right?

Anita Spiller (: 40:47

Is laundry detergent.

Leena Manro (: 40:48

Amazing.

Anita Spiller (: 40:49

Yeah. Because it is a human, right, because it is so necessary. Because it is the difference between a child making a friend or not, or being teased or not-

Leena Manro (: 41:00

It's true.

Anita Spiller (: 41:00

... for something they can't do anything about. Where we currently are giving 10% of our corporate revenues to our donation program-

Leena Manro (: 41:10

Amazing.

Anita Spiller (: 41:11

And we're recently looking at 1% for the planet as another certification. We know that that resonates with our consumers and our customers. And so we looked into it and part of it is, we're going to struggle to get there, because we put all of our energy into our donation program, that we're not able to write a check necessarily to an organization, because we're more interested in giving first-quality product. We don't give the stuff that's broken or damaged or has fallen on the floor. We want to give people that environmental product that really can make the difference for them.

Leena Manro (: 41:45

This is part of your donation program?

Anita Spiller (: 41:46

It is.

Leena Manro (: 41:47

Oh, I see. I see, okay.

Anita Spiller (: 41:48

Yeah. So part of it for us was, okay, we really want to be 1% for the planet. And I think we're 10% for the planet, because we're giving 10% of our revenue. And we gave away more last year in our donation program than we made in profit. And because we have such a small footprint, we can give tens of thousands of loads, which can tuck into one corner of a food bank. So think about what that would mean if it were a liquid laundry detergent.

Leena Manro (: 42:17

I love that you are in the laundry business, but your purpose is something different. Your purpose is to reduce plastic and to make this world better by all the actions you do and the donations you give. Yeah?

Anita Spiller (: 42:29

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And very early on in this relationship, my mom would be like, "It's a laundry company. I don't really understand," because I'm so justice focused, because I'm really, I spent my entire life and my entire career fighting for people. She's like, "Why are you working for a laundry company?" And it's like, "Because they're not that laundry company, Mom. They're more interested in doing good for the planet, that they're more interested in helping people. And we need justice-oriented folks who are going to get into these CPG firms and into these other big organizations to make a difference, to point them in the right way, because we all can do good."

(: 43:10

But I think sometimes folks are paralyzed. They know they need to do something and they want to. Hand on heart, I think people generally want to be good people and want to do the right thing, but I think they don't know how. And so I do offer it out to listeners, if they have product they know that could be used by someone, but they can't get it out there, please call me. Please email me so that we can talk about how we might make that happen. It's a complicated infrastructure to get into food banks, but once you're there and you've made partnerships, it's an incredible and beautiful thing to know that you can be relied on for that.

Leena Manro (: 43:51

So it's complicated for corporations to get into food banks? Is that right?

Anita Spiller (: 43:56

It is, yeah. So you can't really just call up a food bank and say, "I have this product I wanted to give you."

Leena Manro (: 44:02

Oh, I see.

Anita Spiller (: 44:02

Right? Because first of all, is it something that our consumers need?

Leena Manro (: 44:05

Correct. I see.

Anita Spiller (: 44:06

Right? Is it something that people are asking for?

Leena Manro (: 44:08

Right.

Anita Spiller (: 44:09

Is it in a format that we can easily give it to folks?

Leena Manro (: 44:11

Of course. That makes sense.

Anita Spiller (: 44:12

Do we have the space to hold it? And sometimes what happens is folks give things that are close to expiry date or have expired, or maybe it's damaged. And while some product is okay, is that the message we want to send to folks that are really suffering from poverty, that what you are worthy of is this damaged product?

Leena Manro (: 44:34

Right. Yes.

Anita Spiller (: 44:35

What would it mean, though, if we gave first quality product? What would we mean if we gave first fruits? I'm a Christian, so Christians out there will know what that means, is you give the best of your crop-

Leena Manro (: 44:48

Beautiful.

Anita Spiller (: 44:49

... to people who need it.

Leena Manro (: 44:50

Yes. Okay. We learned a lot from today's show. I really loved having you on Up To So Good, because I feel like Tru Earth is definitely, it's a company that's doing up to so good. It is up to so good. And so are you. You're up to so good.

Anita Spiller (: 45:06

Thank you.

Leena Manro (: 45:06

Do you want to sing it? Do you want to?

Anita Spiller (: 45:06

Yes.

Leena Manro (: 45:06

Okay. Well, we're all, up to so good.

Anita Spiller (: 45:06

Up to so good.

Leena Manro (: 45:15

Well, thank you once again to our guest, Anita Spiller from Tru Earth, the Vice President of ESG, that's environment, social and governance. And really want to thank you for being on our show. And to the listeners and the viewers out there, if you want a little bit more information on Tru Earth, you'll see some information on our own website, or you can check out their website, tru.earth. Tru.earth?

Anita Spiller (: 45:39

Yeah.

Leena Manro (: 45:39

Really?

Anita Spiller (: 45:39

T-R-U.earth. It's like .org, .com, .ca, .earth, and environmental ending.

Leena Manro (: 45:45

I don't think I need to repeat that. That's fine. Right? Thank you so much. Take care. Well, that's all the time we have for today's show. Thank you so much for joining us. And if you've enjoyed the show, please subscribe, hit the "like" button, or share an episode. And if you have any feedback, questions, or comments or show ideas, you can email us directly at hello@allpurpose.io. Thank you once again for joining us. We'll see you next time.