More Than Skin Deep: Beauty With a Purpose

Leena Manro (: 00:00

Welcome to Up To So Good, the podcast that unlocks the secrets of creating a purpose-driven business so we can all make this world a better place. Come join the conversation.

(: 00:13

Hi, welcome to Up To So Good, the podcast that explores the purpose of business. So today's episode, we're going to be talking to Andrea Chase of the B Beauty Coalition. We're going to be talking about all things about beauty and skincare that affect the planet and affect your own health. But on the way to recording that particular episode, actually a bird had pooped in my hair. I washed my hair many, many times and have since and so my hair is extremely clean, but I thought, "What was more toxic, the bird poop or the stuff that was in my shampoo?"

(: 00:43

Well, on today's episode, we're going to dive deep into ingredients and where they're sourced. And these are the kinds of things that we're going to talk about. If you are somebody who is into makeup or a skincare or any of that, or you know someone who is, this is definitely a good episode to tune into. We hope you enjoy the show.

(: 00:58

Hello, and welcome to Up To So Good, the podcast that explores the purpose of business. I'm your host, Lena Manro. And today, we have a really fun topic. We're going to be talking about the beauty industry. The good, the bad, the ugly. See what I did there? No. Okay. My wonderful guest, her name is Andrea Chase, and she is a woman of many, many titles. And so, I'm going to let her introduce herself and her titles and her roles. Go ahead Andrea, and thank you for joining us today.

Andrea Chase (: 01:26

It's so nice to be here with you, Lena. Definitely have to say I'm a fan of the podcast, so it's nice to be on the other side of it for once. So hello, everyone. I'm Andrea Chase. In my day-to-day role, I serve the sustainability community as the co-chair of the Supervisor Advisory Board for the International B Corporation Beauty Coalition, which is an industry affiliation of all the amazing B Corps within the beauty space. And then my role is with Arbonne as the Vice President of Sustainability, where I lead up all of their sustainability initiatives for our own beauty, personal care and nutrition products. So I'm really excited to be here to deep dive on the good, the bad and the ugly, as you said, and really, the opportunity of the beauty industry to be a force for good for people and the planet.

Leena Manro (: 02:08

There is such an opportunity. Yeah, actually, this is one of the first interviews we've done not in studio. And so, we were racing trying to figure out how to... We had a few technical issues to start this up. And I was putting my makeup on pretty late. And as I was, I was just thinking about this, and I don't usually put my makeup on so late in the game, I usually come kind of dressed up. And honestly, a bit makeupped out for the cameras. That's what we do. And just thinking about how every day for so, so, so many people, for so many people, there is some beauty product that touches their skin. Honestly, not a day goes by... Maybe I'd say, yeah, even on the weekends, if I'm going out to grab some groceries or something, I'll put on maybe even just a little bit of blush or foundation or some light lipstick.

(: 02:58

And so, there we are, every single day. And we've been doing this, many of us have been doing it since we've been teenagers. Oh, my gosh, so much to unpack there in terms of what are we putting on our skin, the chemical aspect of that, how has that been affecting us? And then the other part of it is, when these products forget about the chemicals, but say these chemicals aren't used up. And some of them would go in the landfills and the trash into our water systems... But the packaging, the thousands and thousands and thousands or millions or trillions probably of pounds of garbage that is created, not recycled. When you're done, your lipstick containers, many people are not putting them in the recycling bin probably because they don't even know that they can. And maybe they can't. I don't know.

Andrea Chase (: 03:48

You cannot. Let's be clear, there is a thing called wish cycling, and we all do it all the time. And sadly, recycling infrastructure is not up to par with current packaging. So you're right, there's such a tremendous impact on the packaging output side of it, what we're putting on our bodies. Our skin is our largest organ. It absorbs everything. So there's not only-

Leena Manro (: 04:10

It absorbs everything.

Andrea Chase (: 04:11

It absorbs everything. So there's the chemical side of the ingredients, but also, and when you really start to dive into it, what about the chemical interaction of these efficacious formulas with packaging as well? So, there's so many different levels to think about.

Leena Manro (: 04:24

Back that up. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Did you just say... I never thought of that. So the chemical interaction of the formulas we put on and the packaging... So for example, the products we're wearing, they've had plastics leached into them?

Andrea Chase (: 04:39

Exactly, exactly.

Leena Manro (: 04:41

That's great.

Andrea Chase (: 04:42

And the more efficacious the formula, the more that you have this opportunity for interaction with packaging materials that are not inert. So glass is one of the best packaging materials for skincare, because it will not chemically react with anything. It's inert.

Leena Manro (: 04:55

Right.

Andrea Chase (: 04:56

And so, not only is it inert and you're not going to have any interaction between the plastic and the efficacy of the ingredients that you're putting on your body and your face, but it's also recyclable.

Leena Manro (: 05:05

It's recyclable.

Andrea Chase (: 05:06

And renewable. So it really is the best solution for your face, for your body, for your health, and for the planet, assuming that the recycling infrastructure is able to take it.

Leena Manro (: 05:20

Yeah, that's true. Because right now, that might not be the case. For example, say I have foundation, when I'm finish with my foundation, can I just throw that glass container into recycling or no?

Andrea Chase (: 05:32

I mean, you can do anything you want. It doesn't mean it's actually going to get recycled. So the best practices with recycling to ensure that you're optimizing the opportunity for that package to have another life afterwards is you have to clean out whatever is in that package. So give it a good rinse to say the least. Obviously, it's a little bit tougher with a foundation. But if you can try to rinse it out, remove the pump or whatever applicator was on it, separate the two, rinse out any of the materials inside of it, and then you will certainly have the best chance possible for whatever your local municipal recycling facility, or MRF as we like to call them, will be able to take. So definitely, be sure that anytime you're recycling, whether it's makeup, beauty, food packaging, clean it out. Otherwise, you will not have the opportunity for that package to see another life.

Leena Manro (: 06:20

And also, I guess really researching products that are sort of ahead of the game, because there are more and more brands that are offering either a product line, and more and more product lines that they span sort of all kinds of things like being, say vegan, not cruel to animals, reusable packaging. Because, that's also another wonderful thing where I came across a lipstick for example, and it's from... We don't really endorse products here. I mean, we can, but no one's ever asked us to. So if I'm talking about a product, it's actually personal experience.

(: 06:54

There's a beauty brand called, Lush, which has a lot of really incredible, healthy, organic... And just, I like Lush a lot, actually. See, look, I'm endorsing their products. Oh man, for free, but whatever. One of the things I love, I love their mascaras, the only mascara that's never irritated my eyes. Okay, that's interesting. So whatever they've got going on in their mascara, I don't know. That's fantastic. So their ingredients are pretty good.

(: 07:21

But, the thing I came across recently was their lipstick. It is by far my favorite lipstick. I just happened to not put it on today. It is this color. It's like a very strong berry color. And what I love about it is, not only does it glide on beautifully and easily, but it comes in a reusable container. So I bought a little container about that big, small, doesn't take up much room. And you just buy the wax, lipstick, refill every time you finish using it. That is a mind-blowing. Such a simple shift in how a product is designed can be so powerful. Why aren't all lipstick containers made like that? Why can't [inaudible 00:07:59] do that?

Andrea Chase (: 07:59

It's interesting. As a citizen and a consumer who spends money on these things on a daily basis, I am with you. I wish that we were all working towards what we would call the circular economy in our sustainability terms, which is working towards packaging that's recyclable, refillable, reusable, and really made of renewable materials that aren't just going to end up in a landfill. So you're talking about refillability, which is one avenue towards building better packaging from what we would call a life cycle and end of life approach. I love that they're piloting that. We see so many other brands that are now becoming zero waste heroes, where they're leveraging brand differentiation based on that type of packaging.

(: 08:37

And the good news is for them, is that they're going to be rewarded heavily, because we're seeing in consumer trends, especially with younger demographics, Gen Z, millennials, folks like that, that they're militant about wanting better packaging. And because that is the main intersection that folks associate with sustainability, you get the most credit when you have better packaging, too. So in addition to things like refillability, which is amazing, I know I invest in lip pencils that are made of wood, because it's a renewable resource.

Leena Manro (: 09:06

I do, too.

Andrea Chase (: 09:06

Right?

Leena Manro (: 09:06

Yeah.

Andrea Chase (: 09:07

And then it goes back to the planet, it breaks down over time. Once you're done using it, you have less plastic than the other container. So there's so many different options that we're now seeing emerging on the market, and it's a really exciting time to be piloting these things in the beauty industry, because circularity is becoming the norm, when we're also seeing regulations pushing us in this direction. So it's not just consumers wanting better products, but now we're seeing recyclability, post-consumer recycled content, and all of these other laws both in North America, Europe, the UK, that are emerging to help support businesses that are pursuing better packaging as well.

Leena Manro (: 09:41

Do you want to hear a little hack? Do you want to hear a fun hack?

Andrea Chase (: 09:44

Sure.

Leena Manro (: 09:45

Yeah, you can take this. You can take this. Anyone can take this. So I love what you just said about lip pencil, because actually that's what I'm wearing, too. And my producer, Deb, she was in the back with me. We were chatting about this episode as I was scrambling to put makeup on, and like I said, I didn't bring my favorite little Lush thing, but I love those, those little lip pencils. And here's a hack. You put a little bit of coconut oil, which again, it's coconut oil, right? It comes in a glass. You put a little bit of that on your lips first, and then you can smear the lip pencil like it's lipstick.

Andrea Chase (: 10:17

Love it, love it.

Leena Manro (: 10:18

You get that for free. That's for free.

Andrea Chase (: 10:20

And if you want to be really sustainable, look for UEBT certified coconut oil, and you know that it is not harming the planet and adding to deforestation. And it's also helping to support fair labor and fair wages throughout the supply chain as well.

Leena Manro (: 10:34

UEBT, I did not know that.

Andrea Chase (: 10:36

Yep.

Leena Manro (: 10:36

What does that stand for?

Andrea Chase (: 10:38

Oh, gosh. The Union of Bioethical Trade or something like that.

Leena Manro (: 10:42

Okay, love that. Got that. That is so great. Because otherwise, the pencil is exactly that. It's like a pencil. But it stays on so much better than lipstick. It just gets so dry. So just a tiny bit of coconut oil, and then that's it. Ladies and gentlemen, you can throw out your lipsticks, don't need them anymore.

Andrea Chase (: 11:01

Yes, unfortunately, that is one of the toughest packages to really make sustainable progress in. You see things like metalization on plastic componentry, which can't be sorted during recycling. So unless it's fully made of metal, it's not going to go where you want it to go. There's just so many things that make the package beautiful that unfortunately are not good for the planet. So, invest in the wooden-based things, invest in the reusability, invest in the refillability. It will do such a wonder as we're tackling plastic pollution waste on a global scale.

Leena Manro (: 11:35

And invest in researching skincare products that have maybe better ingredients, too, right?

Andrea Chase (: 11:39

Totally.

Leena Manro (: 11:40

Because our skin, our largest organ, it's incredible. Why do we do this? Why are we so-

Andrea Chase (: 11:48

It's amazing-

Leena Manro (: 11:49

The small decisions-

Andrea Chase (: 11:50

... that people don't think about it, too. What you're putting on your skin is absorbing into your largest organ, parabens, phthalates, hormone disruptors, bioaccumulated toxicity from soil practices. There's so many aspects of this that can impact your health. And I think that's really driving the clean beauty trend that we've seen at hyper speed over the past five years, as well as global regulations on what you can and can't put in your body that are really being driven by the EU. I have to say North America is a bit far behind in consumer protections, especially on the ingredient side of things.

(: 12:27

So, it's really cool to invest in brands that are aligning with European standards that are going beyond clean, that are going beyond, in the United States, it's FDA regulations, but in other countries, whatever that basic governmental regulation is to make sure that they're protecting consumers. And all of that is going to help with your health, it's going to help with your wellness, and it's also going to help with the planet, because those ingredients in the way that they're sourced do have an impact on the planet, especially when you're working within beauty, and so much of them are bio-based.

Leena Manro (: 12:57

I just want to go back to a couple of things you said. You said something probably too quick for me to pick up on. It picked up on a little bit. Did you say something about from the soil, toxins from the soil impacting our beauty?

Andrea Chase (: 13:09

Yes.

Leena Manro (: 13:09

Okay. Can you explain what you mean?

Andrea Chase (: 13:10

Of course. So much of beauty and especially emerging clean beauty brands are focused on bio-based products. They're focused on plant-based ingredients and really taking the best of botanicals to serve human skin, to serve human beauty, et cetera. When you're growing plants, the soil that they're growing in, the practices of the growing and the farming impact the plants themselves. And we especially see this within the nutrition side of our business at Arbonne, is you can see a bioaccumulation of pesticides, of toxins, of heavy metals within the soil itself.

Leena Manro (: 13:46

I see, okay.

Andrea Chase (: 13:47

So for instance, for us to understand that bioaccumulation and to mitigate it, we batch test every unit of our protein powders to make sure that there are not heavy metals in them. But if you're not paying attention to these soil remediation practices, or you're not sourcing through organic or regenerative organic certified, or you just don't even know the farm that it's coming from, which is all too common in this industry-

Leena Manro (: 14:11

I don't know the farm, I don't know the farm where my lipstick came from.

Andrea Chase (: 14:15

Most businesses don't even know the farm where it's coming from, which is crazy.

Leena Manro (: 14:18

Wow. Yeah, yeah, my goodness.

Andrea Chase (: 14:22

And there can be real health impacts on this. We have a very globalized ingredient network of folks and suppliers within the beauty industry, and you're seeing the impacts of climate change disrupting the ability to grow certain ingredients. You're seeing the impacts of deforestation disrupting the ability to grow ingredients. So it's not just the animals. There are real effects on supply chains that have to do with plants as well, which so much of clean beauty is really rooted in that vegan philosophy and plant-based philosophy.

Leena Manro (: 14:54

And we can make a difference. The people with their buying dollars, every time you pick up a beauty product, thinking about the ingredients, where it comes, from doing a bit of research and recognizing the end of life of that packaging, where is it going to go? Is it recyclable, is it reusable? All these things make such a difference, don't they?

Andrea Chase (: 15:15

Oh, they really do. I'm such a firm believer in that we must vote with our dollars. I think it's more important today than it ever has been before. We need to reward businesses that are making that leap of faith for equity, diversity and inclusion for environmental impact. We all have the power as global consumers to direct markets. It is really, really... I want it to be inspiring and empowering for us, because what we do and who we support is important. So having a basic understanding on, as you mentioned, the ingredient certifications or what I would like to call product or process specific certifications that are important to you, vegan, cruelty-free, non-GMO, organic, regenerative organic, those are so, so important.

(: 15:56

But for those of us that are starting to just tiptoe into the sustainability world and haven't spent our careers in it, the easiest way to identify is the B corporation symbol, which I know you are a B Corp. I'm a B Corp. I've certified more B Corps than I can count on my fingers and toes. That is how much I believe in this movement. Seeing behind the lens on so many of these businesses, across so many industries, really has given me faith in the movement that they are looking at stakeholder impact holistically as a company. And it is the only global certification that does so. So if you don't know the ins and outs of clean beauty and how you can bring that to life for yourself, just look for the Bee Corp certification. It is a really good start to send you in the right direction.

Leena Manro (: 16:38

B Corp. B Corp. B Corp. There's a B in a circle, B Corp. B Corp, yes. So Andrea, you're so knowledgeable and clearly so passionate about the people and the planet and clean beauty, and beauty that is also good and healthy and at least doesn't harm our planet. Why? What has brought you to this space? What's your story?

Andrea Chase (: 17:06

Oh, thank you. I definitely am passionate. I bleed green is the running joke inside all of the organizations that I either contribute to as a volunteer or that I work with. And, I really am a nature nerd at heart, despite being Los Angeles born and raised. I love hiking in the mountains around here. I've always been so deeply interested in natural ecosystems and animals and geology and the ocean. The ocean really was my first love. And it's so funny, I even have a newspaper clipping from the Los Angeles Times from 2006 when I was a senior in high school, which I just aged myself. But that being said, that talks about plastic pollution and the impact on the marine protected environment off the coast here. And it's something that I still have to this day, and I'm so proud, because it really has been my north star in helping to produce better products that are looking at climate from a lens, but also that end of life impact.

(: 18:02

And as a scuba diver, as somebody who just is so in love with the ocean ecosystem and our natural ecosystems, it really was my mission to make sure that I was helping to combat plastic pollution in the world around me and in our own business alone. It was funny, I ran the stat literally last week. We've not only reduced our plastic consumption by 50% since I joined the company five and a half years ago, we have also eliminated over 585,000 pounds of plastic that would've been in our packaging by choosing renewable and recyclable materials. So I'm really proud that I've seen full circle with my mission.

Leena Manro (: 18:39

Wow, impressive.

Andrea Chase (: 18:39

Yeah, it's [inaudible 00:18:39]

Leena Manro (: 18:39

And also, so we're saying end of life a lot, but just to ensure that for listeners and viewers who are interested in this topic, because when you say end of life, I know exactly what you're talking about. I don't think it's commonly tossed around words really or phrase. But in the beauty system, when we say end of life, and correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm understanding it to be is the end of the use of that packaging, right?

Andrea Chase (: 19:06

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Leena Manro (: 19:08

And I don't think a lot... Other than this conversation, and as I said, some beauty brands like the Lush product that I came across, I feel like it's just... I don't remember the last time I had a conversation with my friends about it. But yet, when you open up the... Everybody has that beauty cabinet drawer, right? There's not one thing, except for that lipstick I have... Very little is actually recyclable.

Andrea Chase (: 19:37

Unfortunately, that is the case.

Leena Manro (: 19:39

So when we say end of life, that's what we're talking about, right? End of life. End of life of your-

Andrea Chase (: 19:44

Yeah.

Leena Manro (: 19:44

Do you have the stats of how much that waste is, what actually, volume wise, how much we're throwing away every month, every year, every day?

Andrea Chase (: 19:53

It's really... I do not have them off the top of my head, but when I was putting together a sustainability report recently, I was looking at global plastic pollution, and the number one driver of it is plastic packaging, whether it's from beauty or anywhere else, and really looking at that single use plastic packaging. And the reason for that being the number one driver, and we're talking hundreds of millions, if not billions of pounds every year of plastic going into the environment, into landfills, et cetera. And the number one reason why we're not seeing a reusable end of life, a recyclable end of life is not only because of the material choice, there's only very certain limited types of plastic that can be recycled, but also the size of the packaging itself.

(: 20:33

Municipal recycling facilities, they evolved to tackle current packaging. And when you think back to the late eighties, early nineties when recycling really was developed as a system and launched as a system in North America, the package types were so different. You had huge cans of coffee that were metal.

Leena Manro (: 20:53

Right.

Andrea Chase (: 20:53

You had giant plastic bottles. And so all of these amazing little municipal recycling facilities or MRFs don't have the same technology in place to sort small items. It is starting to see an investment in that infrastructure, and regulations are starting to help with that, especially with producer taxation. So companies are now being taxed on plastic, on packaging that is not recyclable in North America, and that will help fund the system and help fund a solution. But we're in this weird gray area right now where packaging has outpaced any of the systems that are currently in place. And so, these small packages, these plastic types that are blended, these mixed materials don't have a way to be sorted, don't have a way to be broken down currently.

Leena Manro (: 21:42

So we are actually being impeded by and shot in the foot really because of our innovation. So being able to innovate so quickly to make, like you just said, mixed material packaging or really small or probably dyed packaging or whatever we're doing to make something look really pretty. Oh wow, that's very difficult to recycle. And then it adds to water waste or landfills, and that's all problem problems. That is incredible.

Andrea Chase (: 22:09

Yeah, unfortunately.

Leena Manro (: 22:09

I wish there was more education in this. I wish there were more... Because I feel like until you think about it, you just don't think about it. We take it for granted.

Andrea Chase (: 22:21

You totally do. And it was, I want to say, about six years ago, I really tried my best to be zero waste in my lifestyle. I really, really genuinely tried. It is almost impossible, and it is so-

Leena Manro (: 22:35

Very hard, yeah.

Andrea Chase (: 22:36

... frustrating. But in that dig, because there was quite a deep dive of research for me, from my kitchen to my bathroom, to everything in between to understand how I can mitigate plastic pollution and one-time use. I have to say that there's been such an evolution since that preliminary dig where you see businesses that are growing based off of zero waste, that that is their stance of differentiation. Ethique, which is an amazing organization within B Beauty, a certified B Corp, North American based as well, they launched only dry and solid shampoo bars and conditioners. They are not even looking at launching in recyclable aluminum or anything like that. They're like, "Why do we even have this packaging? It's a waste of resources." And there are so many other businesses that are doing this now, like dry shampoo bars and solid shampoo bars, and all of these things are now commonplace, and there are so many amazing brands that now have those as available options.

(: 23:36

So it does seem like we have a long ways to go, but we've also come a long ways in the last few years. And your Lush example is another B Corp that's great. They've really rooted themselves, not only responsible ingredients, but looking at waste and looking at how do you mitigate waste and building zero waste products, whether it's their bath bombs, because they dissolve and they're in paper instead of cellophane.

Leena Manro (: 23:57

Oh, that's right.

Andrea Chase (: 23:59

There's so many little things that you can do. Actually, one of my favorite brands and their CEO is on our board is Elate, and they're really, really close to you. They're on Victoria and on Vancouver Island, and they have only developed zero waste products. They are piloting-

Leena Manro (: 24:16

What are they called again? I didn't catch that, Elite?

Andrea Chase (: 24:18

Elate Beauty, yeah.

Leena Manro (: 24:22

Elate.

Andrea Chase (: 24:22

Yep, Elate.

Leena Manro (: 24:22

Oh, okay. Gotcha.

Andrea Chase (: 24:23

And they're piloting things like fully aluminum mascara, so it is recyclable because metal is infinitely recyclable. They're piloting refill programs for blush, for makeup. There are so many amazing examples now of companies that have built themselves around solving the waste problem. Those are just a few of my favorite ones. And for anybody out there who wants to find more, please go to BCorpBeauty.org as all of our members are piloting some sort of circularity, cruelty-free-

Leena Manro (: 24:55

BCorpBeauty.org. Okay, okay. We're going to list that website on ours as well, BCorpBeauty.org. And I'm sorry, I interrupted you. You said that they're piloting all kinds of-

Andrea Chase (: 25:06

All of our companies within our organization are piloting things like regenerative agriculture, responsible ingredient sourcing, fair labor and supply chain, circularity of products as well. So that is a really good cheat sheet of amazing brands within beauty who really give a hoot and are going beyond what I would call common practices within our industry, and actually greenwash practices within our industry.

Leena Manro (: 25:32

If I can just share a tiny personal story. I'm really privileged to get to host this podcast. We're still a very new podcast and kind of an offshoot of our design agency, All Purpose. We're very passionate about learning and sharing stories, especially in using corporations as a force for good, sort of the premise behind the whole B Corp movement. And I will say that every time, for me personally, I learn something, I feel like it changes my behavior. Right now, I'm wearing something that is organic cotton and very minimally dyed, and I'm thinking about the products that I'm starting to wear on my face. But now, especially after this, I want to thank you so much for sharing these insights, because it's almost like you can't unsee what you see, right?

Andrea Chase (: 26:28

Totally.

Leena Manro (: 26:30

You're helping, and I hope more and more people do this. This is really important work. You're helping us uncover some of those things that people aren't even thinking about. Sort of the dirty secrets, the ugly secrets that are within the beauty industry that we just sort to take for granted because we don't really know. We haven't thought about it. I've been wearing lipstick for what, 20, 25 years. Now, I'm aging myself. Maybe I started wearing lipstick when I was a little child. I don't know. But we don't think about these things because it's part of our day-to-day, it's part of our culture. But the more you dig into it... I know for me, by being on this podcast and connecting with guests like you, experts in this whole arena, personally, I've benefited so much, but I can't unsee it now.

(: 27:14

So I think about organic cotton, I think about material fabrics and dyes even. And I hope that our listeners, their takeaway is when they're putting anything on their face, the beauty, the creams, foundation, lipstick, all the eye makeup, there's so many eye-

Andrea Chase (: 27:31

[inaudible 00:27:32].

Leena Manro (: 27:31

Why do we have so many eye products? I'm wearing a few of them right now, but eyeliner, eye shadow, mascara, the tacky stuff that you put on before you... Whatever that is. I have that at home. I don't know what it is, but it's supposed to help it stay on. What is that, that tacky stuff? What is it?

Andrea Chase (: 27:48

Primer.

Leena Manro (: 27:48

Primer, okay.

Andrea Chase (: 27:49

Primer, like, oh gosh, I'm dating myself.

Leena Manro (: 27:50

Primer. But I hope that a takeaway from all this is just think about it. Think about what you're putting on your face every single day, and then what ends up going into landfill.

Andrea Chase (: 28:04

And it's not just what you're putting on your face. One of the most fascinating recent developments is the scientific research behind microplastics.

Leena Manro (: 28:14

Microplastics.

Andrea Chase (: 28:15

Yes, they can leach into your formulas, but did you know almost all of our active wear is made of poly-based materials, aka plastic-based materials?

Leena Manro (: 28:28

Yes, that's horrible.

Andrea Chase (: 28:28

So all of those lovely workout enthusiasts and Arbonne's mission is literally sustainable, healthy living. So we are at the apex of healthy living and sustainable products and merging them together through activities. But every time you go to work out and you wear one of those little poly-based lovely yoga pants or yoga shirts, and you are sweating your toushy off in there because you're having a good workout, and your skin is now absorbing everything, research is now finding that your skin is absorbing microplastics from the workout gear. And then, these microplastics are infiltrating themselves not only into our bloodstreams, which can add to plaque buildup and is now causing heart disease failure at increased rates, it's also being found in our brain, which is absolutely mind-blowing.

(: 29:13

So it's not just an environmental problem, it's a health issue, and it will become a emerging health issue as there's more scientific research backing these things up. So it's just so important, whether it's your skincare, whether, as you mentioned, linen, cotton, what are you wearing? Your body is going to absorb these things, and we can change our behavior when we do know things to make sure that we are building a healthier lifestyle for ourselves.

Leena Manro (: 29:44

We did a whole episode on clothing, on microplastics and... Actually, no, I'm just saying we did a whole episode, I think that we've talked about it in several different episodes, because we've had people come in here that are talking about things like clothing, et cetera. And that's, again, one of those things that people don't think about. Ever since then, I have not been able to have anything. I can't buy anything with the word poly in the ingredients. So the most common one is polyester, right?

Andrea Chase (: 30:12

Yep.

Leena Manro (: 30:12

So polyester is the biggest culprit. It's basically plastic, and that's stuff that you [inaudible 00:30:19]

Andrea Chase (: 30:17

It is plastic.

Leena Manro (: 30:18

... working out. But when you say it is plastic... So polyester is the one that I know of. Are there more poly things that we should be... Are there other words that are pretty common?

Andrea Chase (: 30:27

That's a good question. Off the top of my head, I'm totally failing. Polyester is definitely the number one. You will be able to see on the tag, though. If it doesn't say cotton, if it doesn't say linen, if it doesn't say tencel, or wool, for instance, cashmere-

Leena Manro (: 30:42

Wool is good, yeah.

Andrea Chase (: 30:44

Yeah, all of those are great because they come from an animal, they come from a natural material, they come from a plant. But polyester along with, oh gosh, I'm trying to think of some of the other ones, rayon, there's so many manmade materials that are literally plastic woven into string, just stretched out and then woven into a garment that are not good for you. And a lot of the time these plastics aren't tested to the same level as we see with food products, as we see with beauty products. And so, you can see an even worse impact of them because you don't have those standards that are in place to monitor them.

Leena Manro (: 31:21

What should consumers avoid? So for example, what ingredients and what should they look for?

Andrea Chase (: 31:26

Oh, gosh. So this is definitely a little bit out of my depth, as I am not a beauty ingredient expert, but I can at least flag with you some of the things that we're seeing with emerging regulations and how do we find the right list of things to look at. So one of the things that has become a no-no is obviously anything that can leach parabens, anything that can leach phthalates into your beauty products. To avoid those types of things, you should look to European regulations to understand what's not allowed. So in Europe, there are quite a few more ingredients than in North America that are banned. They actually banned about 1300 ingredients that are commonly used in North American products.

Leena Manro (: 32:09

What? Wow.

Andrea Chase (: 32:11

Yes, it's not a small amount's.

Leena Manro (: 32:12

That's incredible.

Andrea Chase (: 32:12

When you see... Yeah, it's wild, honestly. It took me-

Leena Manro (: 32:17

Me Europe bans 1300 of the commonly used type of ingredients that... Oh my goodness, okay.

Andrea Chase (: 32:22

Yes.

Leena Manro (: 32:22

Okay.

Andrea Chase (: 32:24

And all of those lead to hormone disruption. It could have been cancer, it could have been bioaccumulation. There's all these different reasons why they were banned in Europe. And for whatever reason, consumer protections are not as evolved in North America to do so. So I highly recommend when you're looking at beauty brands who state they're clean, what are the regulations that they're aspiring towards? What are they aligned with? Even though we're a North American beauty brand, we have all of the same bands as the 1300 ingredients from a regulatory perspective in Europe, but have gone above and beyond to actually add another 700 high risk ingredients that we just don't think are good or should be used.

Leena Manro (: 33:00

That's amazing. Okay. So that's fantastic. And you've done that on your own. And, I'm sorry, where do people go to find that information? [inaudible 00:33:08]

Andrea Chase (: 33:08

So when you go to any company's websites, you should look at their ingredient policies. It's really, really important. So for instance, our ingredient policy has what we call the not allowed list, which bans those 2000 ingredients. You'll find that with other clean beauty brands, especially those within the B Corp space and those within the B Beauty Coalition, we are often aligned to the same standards. So there were things like [inaudible 00:33:31] clean, if you want to go look at their label, they have their own version of clean. And each beauty brand has its own version because it hasn't been a regulatory defined term yet.

(: 33:40

But you can often count on the fact that they are aligning with these regulations that are internationally leading consumer protections. So you'll see things like phenoxy ethanol that's banned, which has been proven to cause issues in human health. You'll see things like looking at the amount of the materials that are allowed in each of the formulas themselves as well, because they interact with each other. And so, it's really, really important to take a look behind the brand at their ingredient policies and how it relates to clean, because it is like natural was a few years ago where it's an unmitigated free for all.

Leena Manro (: 34:15

Right, yes.

Andrea Chase (: 34:16

So unfortunately, consumers do need to do a bit of research. But the good news for us is if it's a brand that is selling in Europe that is selling in these other highly regulated territories, you can bet that their American products, that their North American products, their Canadian products, are likely aligned with those standards because of just sensibility and efficiency in manufacturing.

Leena Manro (: 34:36

Yes, that makes sense. You're not going to see all of a sudden they've got one product for their European consumer, but then they have a totally different one for their North American brand counterpart.

Andrea Chase (: 34:44

Right.

Leena Manro (: 34:45

Okay, well, that's a wonderful reason just to switch to European brands in general. Now, you were saying-

Andrea Chase (: 34:52

[inaudible 00:34:52] already a leader.

Leena Manro (: 34:53

Right? They're already so beautiful. Yeah. Now we know why. Or straight up, as you said, the UEBT coconut oil. I think I'm going to be using a lot more of that just in general. Do you know it takes off makeup beautifully? You don't really need makeup remover when you've got coconut oil.

Andrea Chase (: 35:08

Oh, good to know.

Leena Manro (: 35:09

I'm telling you. That's again, just a little hack. Totally giving that to you for free, but don't sue me if you break out or something. I told my sister this and she was just mortified. She's like, "But you'll break out. Don't [inaudible 00:35:21] the coconut oil in your face, Lena."

(: 35:22

And I was like, "Well, okay. There is that."

(: 35:27

One more quick question. You had said, "We list", so are using Arbonne lists on their website.

Andrea Chase (: 35:32

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Leena Manro (: 35:34

Oh, okay. Great. Great. Wow.

Andrea Chase (: 35:36

I would be shocked if a modern sustainable beauty brand, and I can speak on behalf of so many of the organizations within B Beauty, they all have transparency when it comes to the ingredient formulas. There are additional certifications that you can look at. There's the environmental working group. There are other local ones as well. Like Yucca in the European area is very, very prominent as well to look at that health aspect of your products. So there are tons of other opportunities through third parties outside of the B Corp certification to really do a deeper dive on the ingredients and the health of the ingredients themselves.

Leena Manro (: 36:11

Amazing. Wow. Well, Andrea, thank you so, so much for this wonderfully informative and excellent interview. I know I might be going home and rethinking a lot of my beauty choices. Thanks a lot. No, I'm just kidding. That's good. And I hope that people who've been tuned in who are listening to the show or maybe watching on YouTube, I hope that you've inspired them. I know you've inspired me for sure, to really rethink their beauty choices. And by the way, you are really beautiful. I just see you on camera. I haven't met you in person yet, but you are really, really beautiful. And so, I'd love to take a page out of your book. You're using clearly, you have been I assume, brands that are sustainable and also don't have those awful ingredients. And, look at you. This is your skin. Look at that. Just that alone.

Andrea Chase (: 37:04

Thank you. No, I definitely-

Leena Manro (: 37:07

For people who are listening, they're going to have to tune into YouTube and just see your glowing skin, perfect makeup, glowing skin.

Andrea Chase (: 37:14

I have to say, it's really nice to work within the beauty industry. I did not always work here. I came from green infrastructure, which is a far cry from this. But it's really nice to have access to such amazing products, to be working hand-in-hand with so many brands that are exploring reusability, recircularity, ingredient health, all of these things. And I do have to say, I definitely use my products from work. I have so many that I am obsessed with that have gotten me where I am today. So I do have to thank Arbonne for that.

Leena Manro (: 37:49

Well, thank you. Thank you to Arbonne as well for letting you out for the afternoon to come join us. Appreciate that. And thank you so much, Andrea, for joining us on Up To So Good.

(: 37:59

Oh, this is so something we sometimes do at the end. I don't know how this will work over Zoom. But Andrea, you and your endeavors are definitely Up To So Good. No? Do you want to sing it?

Andrea Chase (: 38:15

Yes, of course.

Leena Manro (: 38:15

You ready?

Andrea Chase (: 38:18

Yes, of course. I'll sing it to you.

Leena Manro (: 38:18

Andrea, you and your company and your endeavors. You are definitely Up To So Good.

Andrea Chase (: 38:24

Up To So Good.

Leena Manro (: 38:26

So, good, okay. Hopefully we can make it sync in the edit. I don't know how that works. But anyway, thank you very much for being on our show.

Andrea Chase (: 38:35

Of course. It was my absolute pleasure.

Leena Manro (: 38:38

Well, that's all the time we have for today's show. Thank you so much for joining us. And if you've enjoyed the show, please subscribe, hit the like button, or share an episode. And if you have any feedback, questions or comments or show ideas, you can email us directly at Hello@AllPurpose.io. Thank you once again for joining us. We'll see you next time.